Door opening after takeoff, has it happen to you before ?, what could I have done better ???

[Danb]

Yeah but Chris you need to worry just about being sucked by one of those lovelies

[chrisk]

It happened one to me on a take off roll.  I just let the tower know I was returning to close a door. 

[carusoam]

Keep in mind the baggage door has a similar challenge...

Jus harder to close in flight

[urbanti]

My A&P/IA didn't fully latch the door on my Bonanza last year and we had to make an ignominious landing after a lap in the pattern and close the door before blasting off on our planned cross country flight.

It's one of those "I learned about flying from that" moments, it's no big deal and once you experience it you are somewhat innoculated against a panic if it ever occurs again.

regards,

Tim

[IndyTim]

It happened to me on my first flight with new Mooney back in 1984. I was flying to Oshkosh the day after I picked it up. It was late at night and my passenger complained about the wind noise. I naively told him to open and re-close the door. He got it opened all right but told me he couldn't close it. I slowed the plane down to about 65 KTS and he still couldn't close it. so I told him I was going to stall the plane and when he felt the plane start to drop to close it.

 

IT WORKED!  It is good to be 26 years old and bullet proof. Doing stalls at night with 6 hours in type.

 

Ahh... youth.   The stuff I did....

[Jim Peace]

centrifugal force 

Is there such a force?

[DrBill]

Happens to me once every few months.   I now have a "process".  

A: Close door "smartly" (not slam but firmly), hold and push lock forward.

B: Press firmly at top of door (over co-pilot head) and between window and door seam over lock, looking for movement. 

Any movement, open and repeat.

 

It seems the only time it opens is when I'm "rushed"  in takeoff. (e.g. in a long line).  Depending on length of flight I sometimes just leave it open. 

My instructor and I tried once for 30 mins to find a technique to close in air to no avail (did not try the stall technique). Slowflight and slips did not work for

us.

BILL
 

[jlunseth]

If it opens on takeoff it means the latch probably needs adjustment.  When the aircraft moves through the air the slipstream pops the door open.  In my experience it is the upper latch that opens, not the mid door latch, but the pilot tries to "cycle" the door by pulling the latch back in order to try to close it in flight, and that opens the mid door latch.  Once that happens you might as well land, it is not easy to get the door closed in flight.

 

I looked it up in my checklist:

 

96 KIAS (for my 231)

Open Pilot's Window

Enter right sideslip (right bank left rudder)

[Ftlausa]

Jim,

 

   There is such a thing --

 

Centrifugal force (from the Latin centrum, meaning center, and fugere, meaning to flee), is the force the draws a rotating body away from the center of rotation. 

[Hank]

Jim,

There is such a thing --

Centrifugal force (from the Latin centrum, meaning center, and fugere, meaning to flee), is the force the draws a rotating body away from the center of rotation.

"Centrifugal Force" is a phantom force. NOTHING draws a rotating body away from the center of rotation. Changing the direction of travel requires acceleration towards the center, but a body in motion stays in motion until acted upon by this acceleration. What you call centrifugal force is just this resistance to the turning acceleration (i.e., momentum).

Half way through a turn, eliminate the force acting towards the center, the moving body will continue moving in a straight line tangent to the turn it had been making. If centrifugal force existed, the body would move further to the outside than the tangent line. A quick napkin sketch would make this obvious, but this is a simple web forum not a whiteboard.

--Hank, BSME, MSE

[Hank]

My door popped open once, about 3 nm after departure (just long enough to check in and set up FF). My wife insisted on her first flight that she didn't need help closing the door. This was the day after I finished my insurance dual . . . I gave her the choice of flying like that for an hour or going back. We went back, landed, shut the door and tried again.

I only have the center latch, and adjusted nothing except her technique. It's been almost 8 years since then with no issues. I had the door panel off once to clean and repaint, so I sprayed some Tri-Flow then, nothing else.

[peter]

It's never happened to me but in addition to the sideslip, I've been told to open the pilot's side window when trying to close it in flight.

It's happened to me, several times.  Closing the door in flight is a two person, two handed operation. The guy in the right seat won't be able to get enough leverage to pull the door shut, so the guy in the left seat will need to do that while the guy in the right seat flies  You need to slow down and put the aircraft into a right wing low sideslip. If you don't open the pilot window then the next step won't work.  In the sideslip, with the window open, reach across the cockpit with both hands, pull on the door strap with all your might with one hand and push the door handle forward with your other hand and latch the door.  It might take a few tries to get both upper and lower latches engaged.  

 

Single pilot just fly with the door open. It will take a more power than normal, but otherwise handles fine.  Trying to close the door when you are alone is a futile exercise fraught with risk - not recommended!  

 

You'll probably need to turn the volume way up on your radio too - it's loud in the cabin when the door is open! 

 

Peter

82 M20k 231

[Mooney20]

It has happened to me three times in two different Mooneys spread over many years. TOTALLY my fault each time because it is the PIC's responsibility to assure all doors and windows are closed prior to takeoff and I failed to do so. I tried using the POH procedure to get the door closed each time without success. It took landing to get the door closed.

When a door opens it is noisy and distracting for sure. The original poster did the right thing- fly the airplane. Just fly a normal approach and stick to your procedures. More than one door opening incident has ended up in a gear-up landing. And I was almost one of them. I flew a normal approach, but with two unflappable, know-it-all pilots in the airplane, I didn't stick to my procedures. Lesson learned.

What you don't want to do is make an emergency return to the airport like the airplane is on fire. One accident I'm familiar with was caused by such actions. He departed Rwy 19 and tried cranking it around to land on Rwy 24 at low altitude. It did not end well.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001213X32244&key=1

[Oscar Avalle]

Happened to me too. Until today I am not sure why. What I make sure now is that the door is really locked and secure. 

 

Once it happened while I was by myself. I returned to the field and closed the door. Not a big deal. 

 

On another occasion I was with my instructor and we used the procedure outlined I don't remember where... slow plane to 100 miles open storm window slip the plane and try to close it. It worked, but I would not have done it if I had been by myself or with a non pilot passenger. Easier to return and land.

[IndyTim]

"Centrifugal Force" is a phantom force. NOTHING draws a rotating body away from the center of rotation. Changing the direction of travel requires acceleration towards the center, but a body in motion stays in motion until acted upon by this acceleration. What you call centrifugal force is just this resistance to the turning acceleration (i.e., momentum).

Half way through a turn, eliminate the force acting towards the center, the moving body will continue moving in a straight line tangent to the turn it had been making. If centrifugal force existed, the body would move further to the outside than the tangent line. A quick napkin sketch would make this obvious, but this is a simple web forum not a whiteboard.

--Hank, BSME, MSE

 

Technically, it's a "centripetal accleration".   There is actually no such thing, in the terminology of physics, as a centrifugal force.  

 

Just sayin'.   :-)

[wiguy]

It hasn't happened to me in many years, PA-28. 1st of all, there is no way to get 'sucked out'. The door is held mostly closed by the wind, it's just cracked and a bit noisy. Plus you are belted in.

The 1st priority is to fly the plane. I would do ZERO about it on initial climb out. After you got settled at a comfortable altitude, could vary with conditions, weather, airspace and who is with, able to fly/help. After that you could try a few of the techniques to get it shut, if not land somewhere and close it.

My Son is taking lessons now. At some later point I plan to open a door in flight, giving prior notice about it though. There was a crash just a few years ago, it was the result of a baggage door opening in flight. It's the distraction that's usually the main issue.

[Andy95W]

"Centrifugal Force" is a phantom force. NOTHING draws a rotating body away from the center of rotation. Changing the direction of travel requires acceleration towards the center, but a body in motion stays in motion until acted upon by this acceleration. What you call centrifugal force is just this resistance to the turning acceleration (i.e., momentum).

Half way through a turn, eliminate the force acting towards the center, the moving body will continue moving in a straight line tangent to the turn it had been making. If centrifugal force existed, the body would move further to the outside than the tangent line. A quick napkin sketch would make this obvious, but this is a simple web forum not a whiteboard.

--Hank, BSME, MSE

Technically, it's a "centripetal accleration".   There is actually no such thing, in the terminology of physics, as a centrifugal force.  

 

Just sayin'.   :-)

Then, as I was taught, the only quantifiable force is the resistance to the inertia of the body in motion to continue it's straight line trajectory, which is centripetal force. Of course that was almost 30 years ago and I can barely remember what I did yesterday.

[29-0363]

Never had the cabin door open in flight, but once had the baggage door open at about 30-40 Kts on take-off (I admit - inattentive pre-flight) which I abandoned.  Also extremely noisy and could have done some damage to the door or fuselage, but thankfully nothing happened there. 

 

The one and only previous time I'd abandoned a take-off was in 1978 in a Grumman AA-1B during pilot training, and it was a benign experience.  What happened the second time was frightening, because it was in my first Ovation 29-0156 with almost 200 more horsepower, and the torque effect of closing the throttle caught me way off guard.  The transition from full torque to zero torque AND with rudder trim set for T/O, caused a pronounced swing and weight shift off the LH main. I caught the swing with a bootful of rudder but it was not an experience I'd like to repeat.

Edited April 28, 2018 by 29-0363

[marks]

My Beech Sierra had two doors up front you just slam to close with no locks, just three pins holding them in.  Every year I'd have a door pop open once or twice.  After a while you can practically ignore the occurance, but the passengers never do and it really stinks if it's in winter.  No way to close 'em once you're in flight.  It hasn't happend to me in my J yet through 1,200 hrs.

[Ftlausa]

Wow, no such thing a centrifugal force.  I guess that's why lawyers like me should not comment on principals of physics (even though it was contained in a joking post). 

 

But, someone should tell the FAA there is no such thing as centrifugal force as they discuss it in their publications and its even in their test bank.   

[carusoam]

The FAA gets to set physics and legal requirements to a level that 16 year old high school students can understand.

They may simplify the language a bit...

Best regards,

-a-

[DonMuncy]

Sounds similar to the proposition that there is no such thing as cold; only lack of heat.

[IndyTim]

Wow, no such thing a centrifugal force.  I guess that's why lawyers like me should not comment on principals of physics (even though it was contained in a joking post). 

 

But, someone should tell the FAA there is no such thing as centrifugal force as they discuss it in their publications and its even in their test bank.   

 

Now you have something else to argue with your friends about at bars.

[Raptor05121]

I can't comment on a Mooney, but the 152 I rent does it quite often. Once every other flight. Its in my initial breifing when I carry passengers. Before takeoff checklists I usually give a good shove but anywhere from 30 seconds later on the takeoff roll to 5 minutes later it'll go "POP" and just get windy. Its a non-event for me. On takeoff I just ignore it until >1,000 AGL. Push open a few inches and pull hard and it closes.

[mooniac15u]

I can't comment on a Mooney, but the 152 I rent does it quite often. Once every other flight. Its in my initial breifing when I carry passengers. Before takeoff checklists I usually give a good shove but anywhere from 30 seconds later on the takeoff roll to 5 minutes later it'll go "POP" and just get windy. Its a non-event for me. On takeoff I just ignore it until >1,000 AGL. Push open a few inches and pull hard and it closes.

 

I've never had a door open on takeoff but I did open the door on my M20D right before landing once when I had reason to believe the landing might not end well.