M-20 Turbo Normalizer Group Discount

[mooniac58]

Hello everyone!

I was talking with Janet at M-20 Turbos.  She said that she would sell 4 turbo normalizer kits for a total price of $104,000 ($26,000 each).  For those unfamiliar with this - it is a turbo normalizer kit STC'd for use in Mooney E,F & J models.  More or less at FL180 you can expect a J to cruise around 185KTS TAS and maintain your 1200fpm climb all the way to FL200.  You can get all the details at http://m-20turbos.com/content/products/turbo.php?link=turbo 

I might be an interested buyer so I figure if we have 3 others interested we could try this route to save some money.

To protect all parties I would suggest we use some form of escrow to control the transaction.

Anyways, just throwing it out there.  I am either looking to do this to my M20J or perhaps step up to a Bravo.  A recent move to New Mexico has me thinking I need something that will hold its MP

[Piloto]

I doubt you can get four guys at the same time for buying the M-20 turbo. Why don't you offer M-20 $25K (yourself only) or you will be getting a 252. I would explore the M20K option before going with the M20 turbo.

José

[KLRDMD]

Quote: mooniac58

I am either looking to do this to my M20J or perhaps step up to a Bravo.  A recent move to New Mexico has me thinking I need something that will hold its MP

[N201MKTurbo]

I've had a plane with the M20 Turbo for 7 years and I think it is a better plane then a 231. It has been fairly trouble free. I had to get the pressure controller and turbo overhauled, the turbo mount has cracked a couple of times, an exhaust pipe cracked, had to replace the seal in the scavenger pump, the exhaust heat shields have broken a couple of times.... Well maybe not that trouble free, but not much more then any other turbo installation.

I have had the plane up to FL220. The critical altitude is supposed to be FL190, but mine is FL210, above that the manifold pressure is a bit unstable.

I have seen ground speeds as high as 260 KTS flying up high. It doesn't happen often but is cool when it does!

 

 

[GeorgePerry]

Sticking O2 in your nose up there can't be much fun, esp if flying with kids.  I've never flown with bottled oxygen.  Thoughts?

[KSMooniac]

Craig, I'm mildly interested but that is still too much money IMO.  There have also been some recent issues, to put it mildly, with part quality and fit/installation details.  If you're serious, you need to ask some specific questions and talk to installers of some of their recent shipments.

George, I've used a portable bottled O2 system a few times solo and with a single passenger up front and find it to be a non-issue.  No comfort issues for me, and in fact I've forgotten to remove the cannula before taking off my headset a couple of times which leads to an unpleasant surprise.    It is a worthy trade IMO for a big performance boost in the teens if you have a turbo.  My uses have been patiently going over the big rocks in CO, UT, etc. wishing for a turbo...

[OR75]

how much would the installation cost ?

very little space left inside a J cowling. how can you add a TN !!!

[Bacachero]

If dreaming to get a Lo Presti cowl....would the m20 turbo fit inside?

[jlunseth]

O2 is just a non-issue.  You can fly with cannulas up to 18000.  I just got a mask because I now have my instrument and want to try the higher flight levels.  I would get an oximizer just to check blood O2 levels once in awhile, but we have not had any trouble with it.  It is the same air up there, just a little less of it but generally smoother.   You can sure get places fast with a TAS in the 170-190 range and the tailwinds at those altitudes can be a real hoot.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: jlunseth

O2 is just a non-issue.  You can fly with cannulas up to 18000.  I just got a mask because I now have my instrument and want to try the higher flight levels.  I would get an oximizer just to check blood O2 levels once in awhile, but we have not had any trouble with it.  It is the same air up there, just a little less of it but generally smoother.   You can sure get places fast with a TAS in the 170-190 range and the tailwinds at those altitudes can be a real hoot.

[Ned Gravel]

Quote: Bacachero

If dreaming to get a Lo Presti cowl....would the m20 turbo fit inside?

[Mcstealth]

Quote: N201MKTurbo

I've had a plane with the M20 Turbo for 7 years and I think it is a better plane then a 231. It has been fairly trouble free. I had to get the pressure controller and turbo overhauled, the turbo mount has cracked a couple of times, an exhaust pipe cracked, had to replace the seal in the scavenger pump, the exhaust heat shields have broken a couple of times.... Well maybe not that trouble free, but not much more then any other turbo installation.

I have had the plane up to FL220. The critical altitude is supposed to be FL190, but mine is FL210, above that the manifold pressure is a bit unstable.

I have seen ground speeds as high as 260 KTS flying up high. It doesn't happen often but is cool when it does!

 

 

[Mcstealth]

Quote: OR75

how much would the installation cost ?

very little space left inside a J cowling. how can you add a TN !!!

[jax88]

How did this proposed group purchase work out?

[KSMooniac]

I don't think it got beyond the talking stage, and now M20 is trying to sell the whole business.  I don't think they have enough inventory right now for a complete kit either, so it is a bit in limbo as far as I know.  I've also heard of some fairly major quality problems with recent kits that required lots of extra installation labor to overcome.

[Shadrach]

[Shadrach]

Quote: N201MKTurbo

I've had a plane with the M20 Turbo for 7 years and I think it is a better plane then a 231. It has been fairly trouble free. I had to get the pressure controller and turbo overhauled, the turbo mount has cracked a couple of times, an exhaust pipe cracked, had to replace the seal in the scavenger pump, the exhaust heat shields have broken a couple of times.... Well maybe not that trouble free, but not much more then any other turbo installation.

I have had the plane up to FL220. The critical altitude is supposed to be FL190, but mine is FL210, above that the manifold pressure is a bit unstable.

I have seen ground speeds as high as 260 KTS flying up high. It doesn't happen often but is cool when it does!

[Shadrach]

.

[DaV8or]

Quote: KSMooniac

I don't think it got beyond the talking stage, and now M20 is trying to sell the whole business.  I don't think they have enough inventory right now for a complete kit either, so it is a bit in limbo as far as I know.  I've also heard of some fairly major quality problems with recent kits that required lots of extra installation labor to overcome.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: Shadrach

[Shadrach]

Quote: KLRDMD

[M016576]

Quote: GeorgePerry

kinda what I thought.  OK for adults but might be problematic for young kids.  I'll stay low (<12K) and leave the O2 system in the aircraft spruce warehouse.

[KSMooniac]

The TN installation will follow the same speeds as a regular J until you start losing manifold pressure to the point that you cannot develop your preferred cruise power setting (ie 65% or 75% or whatever you like) and then the TN will start to pull away...  Below 10,000' or so, a stock J will be more efficient than a stock K because the K uses lower compression pistons, and thus the engine is less efficient than the higher compression Lyc IO-360.  That is why the old adage about turbos is that don't get one unless need to fly high and/or far (to justify climbing up high).  

With the renaissance of LOP knowledge, though, the calculations change!  With a TN system, you don't have to give up the engine efficiency at the lower altitudes, so there is no performance penalty down low (aside from the weight of the system).  However, since the TN system can maintain 30" MP, this allows you to fly much higher power settings at any altitude while LOP, which is much, much kinder on the engine.  The TN-Cirrus and TN-Bo crowd using the Tornado Alley Turbo setups are routinely running hi-cruise at 87% power LOP.  This means they will be faster even down low at that power setting than someone else running 75% ROP at the same fuel flow.

I am dreaming of a TN-201 that could be tickling 185-190 KTAS at 17,500' and perhaps 165-170 KTAS in the 11-12,000' range on 11.5 GPH. 

[fantom]

Unfortunately, Tornado Alley Turbo told me once again, at Sun&Fun, that they have no plans on offering a conversion for the Lyc IO-360.

[KSMooniac]

I am resurrecting this thread for a quick poll...

I would like to know how many of us E/F/J owners would be interested in a TN setup, and what kit price would get you to buy one?