NotarPilot Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I recently reread the article about Garmin's new "affordable" forthcoming ADS-B solution in the form of the GDL-84 retailing at $3,995. I also see that Spruce retails the Garmin 330ES transponder for $3,529. Both seem to meet the ADS-B out compliance mandate which leaves me confused. Why is their "new affordable" product more than their ADS-B out transponder? Is it just a matter of the GDL-84 also providing traffic AND weather and linking to your iPad via Bluetooth? It seems the 330ES only offers traffic to be displayed. I'm just trying to figure out the cheapest way to get compliant. I'm just not sure I want/need all the other wiz bang weather features as I have XM weather on my two 430s. But I do intend to get the FlightSteam 210 soon so I'm thinking the 84 might integrate better if I get that. Any thoughts? Any resident experts out there? Quote
rbridges Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears the GDL84 is a standalone ADSB out unit. You don't have to change your existing GPS and/or transponder. It has it's own built in WAAS and synchronizes with your existing transponder. The 330ES has ADSB out but requires a WAAS source i.e. your WAAS GPS. The GDL84 would be a good choice for someone flying without a WAAS GPS who 1) doesn't want to absorb the cost to upgrade and 2)wants to be 2020 compliant Quote
Marauder Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears the GDL84 is a standalone ADSB out unit. You don't have to change your existing GPS and/or transponder. It has it's own built in WAAS and synchronizes with your existing transponder. The 330ES has ADSB out but requires a WAAS source i.e. your WAAS GPS. The GDL84 would be a good choice for someone flying without a WAAS GPS who 1) doesn't want to absorb the cost to upgrade and 2)wants to be 2020 compliant Correct, but it doesn't say what transponders it will work with. You may need to upgrade to a transponder that can do digital. It may read your transponder output through the air transmission and re-transmit the compliant signal. Good questions for an avionics shop. The 84 will not talk with any of the navigators and is truly standalone. This means the ADS-B in piece will only present to an iPad or other portable device. Garmin doesn't say what portable device you need. Quote
Marauder Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Notar - I think this is Garmin's attempt to capture the non WAAS GPS population who can't and won't upgrade to WAAS. It is their answer to the FreeFlight stuff. There is no mention of the 84 being compatible with the Flightstream product but do mention that you can send it back to the factory to have it upgraded to an 88, which is. Quote
NotarPilot Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Posted January 14, 2015 So being that I have a WAAS GPS in the form of a 430W I should just go with a new 330ES transponder? Quote
rbridges Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 So being that I have a WAAS GPS in the form of a 430W I should just go with a new 330ES transponder? that was my thinking. I went with the KT74 since it fit into the spot left by my KT76A. Quote
Marauder Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 So being that I have a WAAS GPS in the form of a 430W I should just go with a new 330ES transponder? Depends on what you want... I don't know everything you have in your plane but with the 430W you could: 1) Buy a Garmin 330ES, KT74 or Trig Mode S transponder and meet the mandate. If you have a portable ADS-B "in" antenna (GDL-39, Stratus, Levil, etc.) you will get full FIS-B (weather) and TIS-B (traffic) on your iPad, iPhone or Samsung device. 2) Buy a GDL-88 to meet the mandate and get the benefit of the Ads-B "in" stuff (traffic & weather) on your 430W. If you have a portable ADS-B "in" antenna (GDL-39, Stratus, Levil, etc.) you will get full FIS-B (weather) and TIS-B (traffic) on your iPad, iPhone or Samsung device. 3) Buy a GDL-84 and meet the mandate and get weather and traffic on your portable device (not yet sure what the 84 will transmit to) but not on your 430W. 4) Buy a FreeFlight ADS-B device and get the same as the 88, just not on your 430W. FreeFlight will support many more portable solutions. They are one of the open hierarchy guys... 5) Wait and see what other goodies will hit the market. I'm still of the belief that Garmin, unless they are completely in love with their proprietary hardware, will introduce compatible devices to work with Aspens, Avidyne, etc. The introduction of the GDL-84 indicates they are not ready to walk away from the non WAAS GPS owners on limited budgets. The market FreeFlight is also targeting. The thing to remember is that the compliance to the mandate is just the "out" piece. If 2 years from now, there hasn't been any more radical introductions, you can go with one of the above (2 through 4) or just through that quitter transponder in (option 1). Quote
Mark89114 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I think the whole ADSB thing is confusing and expensive. Quote
alex Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Number 1 on Marauder's list is probably your best bet, you will comply with mandate. I have a 530/430 WAAS and a garmin 330. The screen on the transponder went dark, it was transmitting but I could not see anything. It was $700 to replace the screen or $1400 to replace and make the existing unit ADS-B compliant. I went with the $1400 obviously and it takes care of 2020, I can't however get the free weather feature unless I spend $7k on wiring, antennas and a GDL-88. Quote
rbridges Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Number 1 on Marauder's list is probably your best bet, you will comply with mandate. I have a 530/430 WAAS and a garmin 330. The screen on the transponder went dark, it was transmitting but I could not see anything. It was $700 to replace the screen or $1400 to replace and make the existing unit ADS-B compliant. I went with the $1400 obviously and it takes care of 2020, I can't however get the free weather feature unless I spend $7k on wiring, antennas and a GDL-88. I went portable for that part. stratus and foreflight. The larger screen on the ipad is light years better than the 430 display. Quote
Mooneymite Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 The GDL 84 is still a long way from the price point I'm looking for to equip my experimental aircraft (no WAAS source) that has a market value of less than $20K. For my Mooney (430W), there are multiple solutions, but there are a lot of planes out there like my experimental. I hope someone comes up with an inexpensive solution. You can buy a handheld WAAS hikers' GPS that receives both US and Glonas satelittes for under $100. Seems like the "chip technology" is available if someone wanted to harness it to a KT-74 much like we use blind encoders for our Mode C. I get the definite impression the manufacturers are trying to pluck the big spenders now and will not come up with the simpler, cheaper solutions until after 2020. Living with my plane under the Class B doesn't allow me the option of just staying out of class A, ,B, & C airspace. Yes, I am a conspiratorialist. And yes, I"m not rushing to equip ADS-B. 1 Quote
rbridges Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Living with my plane under the Class B doesn't allow me the option of just staying out of class A, ,B, & C airspace. I never thought about that. Are you not allowed to fly under the Bravo? Quote
carusoam Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 The Mode C veil is being updated with the ADSB requirement... Best regards, -a- Quote
Mooneymite Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I never thought about that. Are you not allowed to fly under the Bravo? It is my understanding that flying under class B within the lateral limits of Class B airspace (inside the veil) requires ADS-B (out) compliance. I hope I'm wrong. But is anyone going to catch me? Quote
rbridges Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 It is my understanding that flying under class B within the lateral limits of Class B airspace (inside the veil) requires ADS-B compliance. I hope I'm wrong. But is anyone going to catch me? You can always give the Hatz to me for safe keeping in Perry. Quote
Mooneymite Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 You can always give the Hatz to me for safe keeping in Perry. Great idea! I hate to think of you keeping your Mooney out of the hangar, though.... 1 Quote
Piloto Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 You do not need the "in" side of ADS-B to be compliant by 2020, just ADSB-out. But if you fly a turbo above FL 180 you will need to have something like the KT-74 or GTX330ES connected to a WAAS GPS. I am leaning toward the KT-74. If have any problem with it I can quickly swap it with my old KT-76A. After all I have redundancy on the COM/NAVs why not on the transponder also. José Quote
Marauder Posted January 15, 2015 Report Posted January 15, 2015 It is my understanding that flying under class B within the lateral limits of Class B airspace (inside the veil) requires ADS-B compliance. I hope I'm wrong. But is anyone going to catch me? You're screwed And BIG brother is watching! 1 Quote
NotarPilot Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks for the info Maurader. It seems that option #1 is the way to go. Get the Garmin GTX-330ES to get "out" compliant and if I ever choose to get the "in" goodies I can just install a GDL-39 for $600 + install. Quote
Marauder Posted January 15, 2015 Report Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks for the info Maurader. It seems that option #1 is the way to go. Get the Garmin GTX-330ES to get "out" compliant and if I ever choose to get the "in" goodies I can just install a GDL-39 for $600 + install. You're welcome. I really wanted to be an early adopter of this technology because the area I fly in is a heavy traffic area. Too many close calls. But once I saw how incompatible the solution was, I decided to wait. Hopefully someone ties all of these technologies together and for a reasonable price. Quote
kevinw Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 You do not need the "in" side of ADS-B to be compliant by 2020, just ADSB-out. But if you fly a turbo above FL 180 you will need to have something like the KT-74 or GTX330ES connected to a WAAS GPS. I am leaning toward the KT-74. If have any problem with it I can quickly swap it with my old KT-76A. After all I have redundancy on the COM/NAVs why not on the transponder also. José I'm in the process of some avionics upgrading; part of which is an ADS-B. Solution. I went with the 330ES because the installer said it would work better with my 530/430 setup over the Avidyne. He also said he's having problems with the KT74 and advised against it. My plan is to use my iPad mini with stratus 2 and foreflight for weather and traffic. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
rbridges Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Did he get into specifics with the kt74? I've only has mine a short while so no real chance to test it. Quote
Piloto Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 The KT74 and the 330ES receive ADS-B data via a standard ARINC 429 interface from the G530W. The compatibility issue may be with the RS232 interface for displaying TIS traffic data on the 530. I don't care about TIS anyway. But like the lower price, KT76A slide-in replacement and the altitude alert function. I consider the altitude alert as an added safety function for when the autopilot drift in altitude while I am snoozing. José Quote
NotarPilot Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Posted January 18, 2015 Another question: Once you are ADS-B out equipped, will you still need to squawk an assigned code? Doesn't your equipment send a unique code that allows ATC to identify who you are at all times? Quote
tony Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 The plan the FAA has laid out does not replace your mode A and mode C transponder. It just adds a Mode S with some extra data in the data stream. Quote
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