Bit the bullet, ordered TKS

[IndyTim]

As a PPL student earlier this year, I spent many, many hours trolling these forums as well as other sites, trying to glean the benefits of others' experience.  My goal was to acquire a plane that I could fly to/from client sites all over the east and midwest.  I want to share some of my recent thoughts/decisions in case someone else comes along who is looking for similar info.

 

I bought Parker's Encore-converted 252 in July, about the same week as I got my PPL.  I thought really hard about whether I needed TKS at the time, but it was a big jump price-wise to find something already equipped.  And, N252BH was such a nice plane...  I went ahead and bought it and figured I'd sort through the TKS issue when I got to it.

 

Fast forward to now, and I'm about 10 hours from getting my IFR.  I've been trying to fly back and forth from my home in southern Missouri to a client site in eastern PA, every week.  Let's just say that, as a VFR pilot in a non-deiced airplane, my opportunities to fly an 800 nm route to the northeast have been severely limited.  I'm still flying commercially as a "fallback" 3 trips out of 4.  First it was frequent IMC that kept me on the ground, and as the weather has turned colder, now it's ice.  Doh! but I insist on learning the hard way, I guess.

 

I thought really, really hard about where to go from here.  Getting the IFR will help, but doesn't solve the ice problem.  Short of not flying, I considered these options:

a) trade up to a newer Mooney with FIKI

buy a booted Baron as my winter commuter and load hauler (very appealing in some ways)

c) upgrade 252BH with TKS

 

If I were able to a find a partner, I'd love to have a B55 Baron.  But I don't want to take on the financial responsibility for a twin, as a sole owner. When I see how many of those poor birds have been sitting on the market for years on end, I cringe at the thought of ever trying to sell one.  And I looked at John G's transition from his Bravo to an Aerostar and, well, that's a whole 'nother league of cost.  Be nice to have that 2nd engine in night-time IMC though...

 

As for upgrading to a newer plane, it's a big jump price-wise to get to a FIKI Mooney that interests me. And, 252BH has a 1050lb useful load - it would be hard to replace that.  It's got nice new paint thanks to Parker, and it's a low time airframe.

 

The final data point came this past Monday, when I flew up to PA with an instructor.  We picked up moderate rime ice on our climb to FL190, and ended up having to go to FL230 to get above the tops.

 

At FL230, 252BH was doing this:

Manifold: 28.5"

RPM: 2400 or so

OAT: -22C or so

TAS: 207 kts, calibrated

Fuel: 11.2 GPH, 25 deg LOP

 

That was the first time I'd been above 15,500 MSL, and I was really pleased with the performance at FL230.  I wouldn't want to fly that high all the time -- after 3 hours on oxygen I was feeling pretty crunchy by the time we landed.  But nice to know the plane can do it, and maybe I'll adjust....

 

So I bit the bullet yesterday and booked an order for TKS and some new avionics.  I had planned to get inadvertent TKS, but CAV and AirNet (installer) essentially refused to quote it.  I was torn over the choice anyway, so with their "encouragement", FIKI it shall be.  I feel good about that, although not about the cost.  <cough>

 

One other note: I decided that, while the plane was down for TKS, I'd go ahead and do some avionics and interior work.  I talked to a number of shops around the country, hoping to find at least two places that could do all three tasks.  Airnet Aviation at KLCK (Rickenbacker - Columbus OH) was the only shop I could find that could handle all three.  I looked at breaking it up into 2 phases, but it's both cheaper and less downtime to do it this way.  Here's hoping that goes well.

[carusoam]

Tim,

Check your units. FF in GPM is more like a process cooling pump than an avgas pump for an A/C.

GPH may be more affordable...

Either way, that will be one of the most capable single engine airplanes on or off the planet.

Keep training to match the skills of the plane!

Best regards,

[Marauder]

Tim,

Check your units. FF in GPM is more like a process cooling pump than an avgas pump for an A/C.

GPH may be more affordable...

Either way, that will be one of the most capable single engine airplanes on or off the planet.

Keep training to match the skills of the plane!

Best regards,

If he is doing GPM, I'd expect to see a KC-135 tethered to him at all times.

[IndyTim]

Tim,

Check your units. FF in GPM is more like a process cooling pump than an avgas pump for an A/C.

GPH may be more affordable...

Either way, that will be one of the most capable single engine airplanes on or off the planet.

Keep training to match the skills of the plane!

Best regards,

 

Fixed.  Good catch, thanks.

[John Pleisse]

This will be one on the best equipped 252's in the country.. Don't futz around with a non certified TKS system. Go full FIKI. The plane deserves it. I have never seen this kind of lavishment on a prop strike, former European registry bird. Encore conversion and FIKI. Impressive.

[M016576]

Congrats! Best mooney ever!

[N33GG]

Good luck. About 20 years ago, I went through several airplanes and ultimately ended up with a BE58TC with boots and FIKI everything. At the time, I was flying back and forth from Texas to California every week. And that went on throughout the year for several years, along with other flights to other parts of the country. Didn't have to use the de-ice that often, but it was a real comfort knowing it was there. When I did use it, it was awesome.

I was at Maxwell's shop quite a bit when they were moding Parker's plane. Congrats on getting a really nice Mooney!

[Parker_Woodruff]

And you'll still have about 1000lbs useful when the system is dry...

[Parker_Woodruff]

I have never seen this kind of lavishment on a prop strike, former European registry bird. Encore conversion and FIKI. Impressive.

 

I do believe it was always US "N-Registered" despite its time in Europe.

[jetdriven]

You trip the laminar flow and will lose a few knots due to the TKS, but ice slows the plane down plenty as well.

[IndyTim]

You trip the laminar flow and will lose a few knots due to the TKS, but ice slows the plane down plenty as well.

What exactly causes the flow impact? Is there a difference in the curvature of the tks panels, compared to the base wing leading edge?

Is there anything the installer could/should do to minimize performance impact?

[Steve Dawson]

I've heard the newer installs are more flush and impact speed far less than the older installations. If you ask the installer or CAV can you let us know if it's true? Pictures of the install would be great too!

 

Steve

[IndyTim]

Wilco Steve, pictures as much as I'm able although I'll miss most of it unfortunately.

[jlunseth]

From what I have seen watching the Bravo market you were wise not to install inadvertent.  I seems to be a hit on the value of the aircraft.  The problem is that you are not legal to fly in IMC, and to install FIKI on the plane after inadvertent has been installed, costs around $30,000 more than just installing FIKI to start with, so buyers looking for a deiced aircraft have much better choices.

 

But why were you "crunchy" after 3 hrs. on O2?  Don't understand what that means.  You shouldn't be anything, unless you are not getting enough O2.  I always fly with an oximizer, and I use a miked mask over 18k.  Many pilots have told me that there is a requirement to use a mask over 18, I don't see it anywhere in the regs.  What I found was a reg. in Part 23 that said any O2 system for use over 18k needs to be equipped with a mask, but that does not say you are required to use a mask.  However, other than being inconvenient to eat or drink the mask results in better O2 levels using less O2.

 

The only effect I have noticed from O2 use is that it can dry out your nasal passages a little if you use a cannula, but that effect is very temporary.  If you are not feeling good you should evaluate your O2 level.  It should never fall under 90% O2, and 92 is better. 

[Piloto]

I am waiting for the hydrophobic coating. Putting a $40K/100 pounds TKS in my plane is out of reach for my M20J. When travelling north I check for icing levels at  http://aviationweather.gov/adds/icing/icingnav?icg_type=CIPSEVO_00&height=090 here it shows icing areas at 9000ft. Very useful for preplanning your trips. A good wax on my Mooney helps on reducing ice build up. I found Mooneys to be safe to fly on light icing conditions. But it is definitely better to avoid the icing levels to avoid the speed loss due to ice.

 

José

[WardHolbrook]

Great choice on the FIKI TKS installation. Yes it will have an inconsequential impact on cruise speed, but it is just that, inconsequential. Now, as others have said, the onus will be on you to raise your personal level of competence up to that of your airplane or else all of this is for nothing. By the way, you will own exactly what I could have if I couldn't afford a FIKI Acclaim Type S.  

[IndyTim]

jlunseth - my O2 levels were around 90, compared to base of 98-99 on the ground. I could feel the difference and I felt crappy when i got there. My nose ran a lot, and it was a long flight so I was tired. I did not use a mask since I don't currently have a mic'd one although I'm researching that. I assume that will help, in the flight levels. Nice to know that, if properly set up, I shouldn't feel any different if we fly high.

[Dave Marten]

Welcome to high altitude operations!

Cannulas are only allowed/certified up to 18,000 MSL. 18K+ requires mask (nose and mouth must be covered). Gotta dig into the CFRs (23.1443).

Get yourself a mic'd mask if you intend to suck the hose in the flight levels. No wonder you felt like shit after sitting at 21k for 3 hrs on a cannula.

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/Oxygen_Equipment.pdf

Get a proper mask or stay below 18K!

More educational material here:

http://www.c-f-c.com/supportdocs/abo4.htm

Don't screw around in the flight levels - at 22k you've got 5-10 min till lights out w/o O2

Fly safe!

[IndyTim]

Welcome to high altitude operations!Cannulas are only allowed/certified up to 18,000 MSL. 18K+ requires mask (nose and mouth must be covered). Gotta dig into the CFRs (23.1443).Get yourself a mic'd mask if you intend to suck the hose in the flight levels. No wonder you felt like shit after sitting at 21k for 3 hrs on a cannula.http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/Oxygen_Equipment.pdfGet a proper mask or stay below 18K!More educational material here:http://www.c-f-c.com/supportdocs/abo4.htmDon't screw around in the flight levels - at 22k you've got 5-10 min till lights out w/o O2Fly safe!

/

Thanks for the links and info Dave. Good stuff. I could definitely get hooked on the performance in the flight levels so I'll need to find a mic'd mask soon.

[aviatoreb]

Yes - defn it is both required - and a good idea - to use masks at 18k and above.

 

A good mask makes it not a big deal.  A good mask seals well, is comfortable, is sturdy, and has a built in mic that makes you sound like Darth Vadar when you talk to ATC.  I really like this brand of blue masks: 

http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/face-masks/face-mask

 

love the o2d2 as well.

 

http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/portable-pulse-demand

 

Here are my son and I at FL19 - we are smiling!

[Parker_Woodruff]

Tim,

I have a mic'd Aerox mask I really liked when I flew N252BH in the Flight Levels. Maybe we could work out a deal.

[IndyTim]

...

[AndyFromCB]

From what I have seen watching the Bravo market you were wise not to install inadvertent.  I seems to be a hit on the value of the aircraft.  The problem is that you are not legal to fly in IMC, and to install FIKI on the plane after inadvertent has been installed, costs around $30,000 more than just installing FIKI to start with, so buyers looking for a deiced aircraft have much better choices.

 

But why were you "crunchy" after 3 hrs. on O2?  Don't understand what that means.  You shouldn't be anything, unless you are not getting enough O2.  I always fly with an oximizer, and I use a miked mask over 18k.  Many pilots have told me that there is a requirement to use a mask over 18, I don't see it anywhere in the regs.  What I found was a reg. in Part 23 that said any O2 system for use over 18k needs to be equipped with a mask, but that does not say you are required to use a mask.  However, other than being inconvenient to eat or drink the mask results in better O2 levels using less O2.

 

The only effect I have noticed from O2 use is that it can dry out your nasal passages a little if you use a cannula, but that effect is very temporary.  If you are not feeling good you should evaluate your O2 level.  It should never fall under 90% O2, and 92 is better. 

 

Where is the 30K more coming from? It used to be 30K to install inadvertent and now is 60K or so to install FIKI if I recall correctly. There are a few hours of labor to remove the old TKS panels if you want full FIKI but it's not 30K extra per se, it's still 60K plus a few hours of labor. 

[kevinw]

I have inadvertent TKS on my J (FIKI not available). There's about a 6-7 knot sacrifice in speed. The installers will tell you 3-4 knots but 6-7 is more accurate. In any case, it's well worth it if it saves you only once. You need to run it once a month to keep the membrane inside the panels from drying out. I do it on the ground for two reasons. 1. it doesn't make a mess on the wings and windshield and 2. I want to visibly see that all the panels are working.

[fluffysheap]

I have inadvertent TKS on my J (FIKI not available). There's about a 6-7 knot sacrifice in speed.

 

How old is your installation? I had heard the newer ones are better than the older ones - I am thinking about getting TKS, but don't think I would want it at 7 kts of speed loss - that's a lot!