A few annual ideas (any information / guidence appreciated)

[CDF219]

      So 2 weekends ago I flew into Rome (KRMG) and had a good chat with Joey Cole (Cole Aviation) Mooney shop. I asked a few questions about a couple of mods I am considering for this year annual. I was suprised to hear Joey tell me that what I was looking to do was a wast of money and wondered if anyone coule enlighten me as to why and/ or if you have made these mods and what you thought of them. Oh BTW very dissapointed in the turn out of Mooney guys that showed up (5) yes like FIVE one more than 4 and one less than 6...... I was looking to meet way more Mooney people than that.

 

Ok here is the airplane info and intended mods.

 

Stock (bone stock)

 

1966 M20E

200hp IO360A1A

Lycoming with a 3 blade Hartzell prop

 

Id like to replace the injectors with GAMI

Id like to replace the intake/air filter assembly with the K&N

Id like to do the cowl enclosure

Id like to install the landing light cover

 

 

Im not sure of any pros or cons to these and if its worth the investment or not.

 

Thank you for any info

 

Chris

 

 

 

[1964-M20E]

Chris

From your avatar it appears the outside of the plane looks pretty good.  What does your panel look like? 

Do you have an engine monitor?

Do you have a standard 6 pack layout?

Do you have newer radios?

 

Assuming mechanically airframe and engine you are good I’d start with the instruments and spend money there first.   That is what you see all the time while flying and in my opinion will result in better resale value than external speed mods which are good to do.

 

1. 6 pack arrangement
2. Panel mount GPS
3. Engine monitor
4. Then any other items your wallet and or fancy can afford

[N601RX]

Most people have been able to get IO360's to run LOP without buying Gami's.  A good cleaning and moving them around works most of the time.  If this doesn't work, then buy them as they will pay for their self very quickly.

[CDF219]

Hey John thank you. I do have a 430W and im used to the non standard 6 pack. Id like a JPI CHT later but thought it best installed with or even after the Gami's. The airplane is in great shape inside and out. Im also looking to have the rigging checked at annual and having it weighed. I purchased it in March so there is alot of unknowns Id like answers to.

[N201MKTurbo]

Of all those mods mentioned, I would suggest the cowl closure. It will make your plane look better. It will drop your oil temp a few degrees and you will go 3 or 4 knots faster.

[Marauder]

      So 2 weekends ago I flew into Rome (KRMG) and had a good chat with Joey Cole (Cole Aviation) Mooney shop. I asked a few questions about a couple of mods I am considering for this year annual. I was suprised to hear Joey tell me that what I was looking to do was a wast of money and wondered if anyone coule enlighten me as to why and/ or if you have made these mods and what you thought of them. Oh BTW very dissapointed in the turn out of Mooney guys that showed up (5) yes like FIVE one more than 4 and one less than 6...... I was looking to meet way more Mooney people than that.

 

Ok here is the airplane info and intended mods.

 

Stock (bone stock)

 

1966 M20E

200hp IO360A1A

Lycoming with a 3 blade Hartzell prop

 

Id like to replace the injectors with GAMI

Id like to replace the intake/air filter assembly with the K&N

Id like to do the cowl enclosure

Id like to install the landing light cover

 

 

Im not sure of any pros or cons to these and if its worth the investment or not.

 

Thank you for any info

 

Chris

 

The only one I would consider is the lower cowl enclosure. It did make a difference on my F both from a cooling and speed perspective. If you intedn to fly LOP, you will need a decent engine monitor. I would put that on my list before the injectors. The engine monitor will help you understand whether or not you will need the Gami injectors.

 

With the new EI engine analyzer out there, I would consider it seriously. It can act as a direct replacement for some of your factory gauges, eliminating a potential search later if any of them fail.

[John Pleisse]

John's analysis is dead on, although I would forgo panel work for an Aspen. Most bang, for the least headache (don't start on me about over equipping legacy Mooney's... I am on record suggesting it is worth it...no cost analysis please). You have to have a JPI monitor to fly LOP. Those savings should buy you new cylinders , but if there is left over money, I like a cowl closure, 201 spinner and 201 windscreen.

[Marauder]

John's analysis is dead on, although I would forgo panel work for an Aspen. Most bang, for the least headache (don't start on me about over equipping legacy Mooney's... I am on record suggesting it is worth it...no cost analysis please). You have to have a JPI monitor to fly LOP. Those savings should buy you new cylinders , but if there is left over money, I like a cowl closure, 201 spinner and 201 windscreen.

 

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[BigTex]

I'd make an engine monitor like a JPI 700 item number one. Mike Busch said that if his plane didn't have one he'd not walk but run to have one installed. They're vitally important to maintain and monitor the health of your engine.

[John Pleisse]

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

All great minds think a....... never mind. The new post caption came up while I was typing and I asked myself if should read it first...

[CDF219]

Good info and gives me something to think about. Anyone have any info on having the rigging checked?

[jrwilson]

Cowl enclosure is worth it, a little more speed and better cooling, plus it looks better. I had the k&n, removed it and went back to bracket. Cleaning it was a pain and no noticeable difference. Now I just change the bracket at the oil change, $8.

Have a 20C, so no GAMIs so no idea and don't know about the light cover, but going to look into it.

[John Pleisse]

Good info and gives me something to think about. Anyone have any info on having the rigging checked?

 

If it flies at advertised TAS, hands off the yoke with little coaxing, don't touch a thing. If it is slow and wondering, Joey has the rigging boards and know-how. It should not be more than half a day's labor including test flight.

[rbridges]

That's a nice plane. Engine monitor would be great. I have a ubg16 and it gives much better info than the stock gauges. The 201 screen is expensive but actually gives a few knots from what I've read.

[Chimpanzee]

If you get an engine monitor look at the Insight G series, I have a G1 on my M20C, and quite like the presentation. For more monney you could get the G2 or 3 which shows nearly all data you want (if you have the sensors needed)

cheers
Norbert

[Shadrach]

My take:

 

1) A properly sorted IO 4 cyl Lyc will run fine at just about any usable and practical engine setting without GAMIs.  The genesis of GAMI was the inherent migration of fuel through the Continental "log runner" style intake.  GAMIs are needed on some Lycs, especially bigger TSIO 6s but most 4 cyl run fine, if they do not, there is likely another issue that needs to be addressed.   

 

2) You have Ram Air on the E already, why bother with a K & N? The improvement in flow is minimal and is accomplished by trading filtration capacity for increased flow. I personally would prefer to have a very effective air-filter that I can bypass in clean air over a less effective filter that delivers little to no noticeable increase in performance.

 

3) cowl enclosure will improve looks (subjective). I'm dubious on the speed claims as it does nothing to change flat plate area and likely has little effect on Cd. Maybe it helps with cooling, but given that in the winter I have to work to keep all CHTs above 300 and oil temps above 180, I'm not sure whatever additional cooling capacity gained is needed.

 

4) Landing light cover is pretty much cosmetic. I'd put the time money and energy into a better light before I worried about covering up the old one.

 

 

As an aside, all of the talk about engine monitors is interesting. I am a huge proponent of GEMs, but I disagree that they are "needed" to run LOP or ROP for that matter, but they are a good idea. The fact is you are better off having one to monitor trends and keep an eye out for oddities that can alert you to problems before they become an emergency.

 

I am confident that I could run any injected 4 cyl Lyc LOP using engine roughness and airspeed (CS prop) or RPM (FP prop) sans GEM with no trouble at all...  What's funny is the same guys that will tell you that you need a GEM (and you ought to have one IMO, but LOP is not the reason) for LOP ops will tell a guy running a carb'd O360 to lean to rough and enrich with no mention of the fancy monitor... as if having the more even fuel distribution of an injected motor makes that procedure suddenly dangerous. It does not. Get a GEM because it will show you things like induction leaks, mag failures, timing issues, blocked injectors, where to look for fowled plugs etc. etc...  If you're 100ROPer like so many of our Mooney brethren, all the better to have a GEM in that situation because an injector blockage at that setting will likely put you in an unkind place... 

[Bob_Belville]

Stick with a shop that tells you not to waste your money!

 

Even if you override him at times he is far more helpful to you than the guy who insist you just have to do something that is not really necessary. 

[Bob_Belville]

Chris, my '66E has had the following mods with the speed gain claimed by the STC holder:

 

Flap Gap Seals                    2.5 mph

Aileron Gap Seals                1.0

Flap Hinge Cover                  1.0   

Wheel Well Liner                  1.0

Brakes rotated                      1.0

Dorsal Fin Seal                     2.0

Tail Root Seal                       2.0

Wing Root Lead Edge           1.5

201 Windshield                     3.0

Oil Cooler Relocate               1.0

One Piece FG Belly              3.0

Cowl Enclosure                    5.0

                                total   24.0 mph

 

So, with 20+ knots from these modes done by a prior owner in 1997, my E pretty much meets the performance claimed for a Super 21 in the '66 Owner's Manual! 

[KSMooniac]

My list:

Engine monitor

Fuel Totalizer (perhaps combined with the engine monitor)

Advanced Pilot Seminars course

 

 

 

 

 

cowl closure

201 windscreen

2-blade prop or MT prop 

 

You'll need an engine monitor and fuel flow instrumentation anyway to get the data to get GAMIjectors dialed-in, so you might as well start with those items, fix anything that is wrong with your engine, and then discover you don't need GAMIjectors after all.

[Bob_Belville]

My list:

Engine monitor

Fuel Totalizer (perhaps combined with the engine monitor)

Advanced Pilot Seminars course

 

 

 

 

 

cowl closure

201 windscreen

2-blade prop or MT prop 

 

You'll need an engine monitor and fuel flow instrumentation anyway to get the data to get GAMIjectors dialed-in, so you might as well start with those items, fix anything that is wrong with your engine, and then discover you don't need GAMIjectors after all.

After I installed a JPI EDM 930 I found I could easily run LOP. My stock injectors have a Gami spread of zero!

[Immelman]

For what little its worth I can run LOP with stock injectors on my IO-360 just fine.

 

If you are new to plane ownership you will find no shortage of ways to spend money... take that back, if you own a plane you will always find ways to spend money! I second the advice that a shop that tells you not to waste money is in fact a very good thing to have on your side. I am, however, glad that I have an engine monitor.

 

PS: My plane has the cowl closer and landing light cover. They were installed prior to my tenure. THe nice thing about these mods is that if you were inclinded they look pretty easy to "DIY" if you can get someone to sign off the work..

[Bob_Belville]

Here's the right pic Spread was reported as 0.1 GPH though the charts seems to indicate a little wider. 

[Bob_Belville]

For what little its worth I can run LOP with stock injectors on my IO-360 just fine.

 

If you are new to plane ownership you will find no shortage of ways to spend money... take that back, if you own a plane you will always find ways to spend money! I second the advice that a shop that tells you not to waste money is in fact a very good thing to have on your side. I am, however, glad that I have an engine monitor.

 

PS: My plane has the cowl closer and landing light cover. They were installed prior to my tenure. THe nice thing about these mods is that if you were inclinded they look pretty easy to "DIY" if you can get someone to sign off the work..

The lens cover costs about $55. My wife spends more than that every month to stay a brunette.

[eaglebkh]

I've used Joey quite a bit for some major repairs.  He also installed a JPI 700 for me.  I highly regard his opinion.  Like others have said, the priority mods are engine monitor, bracket air filter, standard gauge layout - the low hanging fruit.

 

I'd like to have the cowl enclosure and 201 windscreen, but now I'm talking about the same money to upgrade to a J.

[Bob_Belville]

I've used Joey quite a bit for some major repairs.  He also installed a JPI 700 for me.  I highly regard his opinion.  Like others have said, the priority mods are engine monitor, bracket air filter, standard gauge layout - the low hanging fruit.

 

I'd like to have the cowl enclosure and 201 windscreen, but now I'm talking about the same money to upgrade to a J.

Who says a J is an upgrade over an E?...   A modified E is about the same speed, same payload, same comfort in the front seat (who cares about the folks in steerage?) with lower maintenance due to simpler gear, etc.