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Hi. Need an advice. Trying to fix a problem. My EGT shows only last 75 F from the Peek. The Engine is fresh after TBO. The same numbers were before engine overhaul. Suppose the Probe has not been replaced. Any suggestions? thanks, lg,m

What kind of CHT, EGT's and Cruise speeds do yall get up at elevation? What RPM setting do you use? Mooney Zoom's with a tail wind and LOP - 8.6GPH SAD HEADWIND ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey there everyone! I’m having a weird issue with my bravo. I’m having EGT fluctuations that happen in all cylinders at the same time. They first cool down 20-50 degrees then back up 60-70 and back to where they were when I leaned the engine out. This is in level cruse flight without any adjustments to the prop, mixture or throttle. My suspicion is the engine driven fuel pump. The only other correlated indication I’ve noticed is the fuel PSI gauge which will flicker from it’s normal cruise level of 40psi to 36 or so for just a second. Shortly thereafter the EGTs start their rollercoaster. Common sense tells us the engine is getting less gas during the rise and falls because of the rise and falls of the EGT and the correlated fuel PSI indication makes me believe the engine driven fuel pump is on its way out. I’ve attached a video of one of the more tame fluctuations I’ve managed to catch on video. Side note: I’ve had a mechanic check this out and I was told “I’ve never heard of an engine driven pump going out before” they didn’t find anything else relevant. Any help at all 20906550-E036-4103-9F85-CC15F5E65322.MOV is greatly greatly appreciated! 20906550-E036-4103-9F85-CC15F5E65322.MOV

Question on how best to troubleshoot: About 4 hours out of my last annual, on a cross-country, the Moritz EGT gage started to fluctuate wildly (was running LOP at the time), and then eventually settled at the bottom (around 500F as I recall). The EDM was stable and the Engine ran just fine. When I start the plane up when it's cold, the EGT starts showing the increase in EGT, but now stops at the low end/display at/around 500F.I It hasn't been essential for operations since I have an EDM700 that displays everything I need to know. Still, of course I want to fix that. My mechanic told me that there is nothing obviously missing or loose anywhere near the sensor. How best to troubleshoot this, without starting to replace parts to see what works. Is there a procedure to test the sensor, or the Moritz gage (which, if it is broken, not sure if/how to repair that...). Anyone know? PS: 2000 Ovation II, with 310 HP conversion.

Hi all, I am a proud new owner of a 1980 M20K 231. A bit more than I need, but I hope to grow into it. I have been reading this forum as a guest for a while and have just signed up to hopefully get some answers from some experienced and willing people. Keep in mind, I am very green. This is my first airplane and although I started flying over 10 years ago I have only been licensed for a couple years. So still learning lots, and trying to read as much as I can. Just a quick run through: I have the TSIO-LB360. It is at about 1000 hours SMOH and was taken apart in 2013 due to a prop strike but I don't believe anything was replaced. It has the Merlyn Wastegate, an intercooler, an EDM700 engine monitor and GAMI injectors. I also have a Shadin Fuel Flow indicator. First question should be a fairly quick and easy one. I flew with some passengers for a couple of hours. Arriving at my destination I had to overshoot the first approach and when I selected the gear up, it wouldn't go up. After cycling it a couple of times with no response I checked the circuit breakers and noticed the "Gear Act" breaker popped. I tried resetting it, and it popped again immediately. Luckily I am old enough to know not to keep trying like I would have in my younger days :-P My rear passenger noticed that the safety latch (metal cover) was open on the emergency gear release so the handle was exposed. I guess one of the rear passengers knocked it with their foot. I closed it, then reset the breaker and everything was back to normal. I assume that they are interlocked? I have done a couple flights since and there have been no issues. Everything functions normally. I can only assume that was the only cause and I don't have anything to be concerned about? Input? Next question should be reasonably simple as well. When I bought the plane the gear warning horn did not work. We had the manifold pressure all the way back (at altitude) and were not getting anything. Before we finalized the deal, the mechanic adjusted it based on some throttle position/manifold pressure readings which we took during the flight and he fixed it perfectly. It would come on at exactly 14.9" of MP. Except that later in the flight it came on slightly less than normal cruise power settings. It would go off eventually if the throttle was moved in and out, and sometimes if I wiggled it side to side gently or twisted the knob (it is not a vernier) it would also go away, but not always. This is somewhere in the 20-26" range so just below normal cruise I guess. I notice it on descents or in the circuit more than anything. Is this an easy fix? I was told that a Mooney expert from Tri City Aero in Kitchener Ontario frequents this forum and may be able to give me some input. I am just in Burlington and plan to give him a call soon to start our potentially long and expensive relationship The last question I have relating to LOP operations may spark more debate (given all that seems to be out there on the topic which has been beaten to death) and probably has no simple answer but I am just looking for a bit of input, not something complicated and I will do some more research myself. Just trying to figure out where to start. My instructor told me to run ROP with TIT up to 1500. I have seen lots in favour of running LOP so I have experimented a bit running LOP. A couple days ago during cruise at 28" I pulled the mixture back to just under 9GPH. That's where it starts to run a bit rough. I bring it back up to about 9.5 with a TIT of around 1450-1500 or so. I have been told, and gotten into the habit of monitoring TIT closely, but have recently read an article that swears by leaning according to CHT. I do know that CHT's are even more important and have a very close relationship with ICP. Here is what happened. After only a few seconds... maybe 15-30 (I wasn't paying super close attention), my #4 cylinder CHT skyrocketed quickly. On the JPI the middle bar that separates the CHT and EGT appeared to be flashing or basically just started going up and up. Then I got the flashing indicator for that cylinder and the display stayed there and I think the temperature was in the 420 range. I panicked and enriched the mixture quickly and everything went back to normal. I thought maybe I was too lean, and tried it again paying closer attention to things, and the same thing happened. It seemed to happen in less than 10 seconds. What I am looking for from some of you experienced guys is the answers to some of these questions... Is this a sign of pre-ignition or detonation? Is this a bad fuel injector? Do you think I caused any damage in those few seconds that it ran like that? Could it be a bad sensor? Is this a result of running LOP? I can only assume so since it doesn't happen when I run ROP (about 1400-1450 TIT and 11.5-12GPH) Any input on this would be greatly appreciated since this is worrying me quite a bit. I know there is likely more to it than a simple explanation but I appreciate any information that anyone is willing to give. Thanks in advance and I hope to be able to post here and look forward to being part of this community. I just love my plane!

Hi ... And happy Thanksgiving to everyone! For those who have seen some of my posts you know I am a big fan of engine data and watching for things the might be a potential future issue. Below is a trace from a flight on an M20J using an JPI EDM830 and uploaded to Savvy’s site. The flight is about an hour long and as you can see the engine was set up in cruise and left that way; steady RPM, MAP and FF and normal CHTs. Notice the oddity on the EGT for Cyl#2 - this pattern has been seen off and on during other flights - however on some flights, #2 is steady and grouped well with the other EGTs. Occasionally, #2 will exhibit a random tendency (with no pattern) to divert from the group, curing itself a few minutes later. At all times the rest of the engine parameters stay rock steady; nothing is felt or sensed by the pilot on this flight. What do you think are differential diagnoses for this? Please share details on why you think what you think. Notes on the above graph (as seen on Savvy Analysis’ site) the top traces are the four EGTs as a group plus FF. The bottom traces are the isolated #2 EGT (for clarity) and MAP. The temperature delta in the #2 swing peaks at ~50dF. CHTs are all in the 380’s and the #2 CHT does not fluctuate with EGT fluctuations. Is that not a better conversation than what is likely to happen at the Thanksgiving dinner this year? Ummm hmmm.

Based on the related thread in "Modern Mooneys," I've been considering this topic but didn't want to muck up commentary on someone's big bore Continental with balanced injectors by blabbing on about my trusty but primitive carb'd Lycoming O-360. Specifically I've been musing about my EGTs and leaning technique in climbs to high DA,, or takeoffs from high DA. Though I've never actually done the latter, I might make it to Leadville one day. Because leaning to "target EGT" at WOT seems precarious to me, I decided to figure out as accurately as possible what that target value is. I looked at my JPI data from 50 flights, all of which were from near sea level and done in the colder half of the year- starting in Sept 2015 when the monitor got put in, until March this year. There was minimal variation except that two clear patterns emerged - in 70% of takeoffs, EGT on #4 was the hottest, with #3 100 degrees cooler. In the remaining 30%, #3 was the hottest, in which case #4 ran 100 degrees cooler. Peak FF was always in the 17-18gph range. Means and std. dev. for peak EGT on takeoff are shown below for the 2 patterns: Cylinder: Pattern 1 (#4 hottest): Pattern 2 (#3 hottest): 1 1260 +/- 11 1280 +/- 9 2 1296 +/- 14 1253 +/- 13 3 1321 +/- 20 1431 +/- 23 4 1427 +/- 18 1326 +/- 13 CHTs also run hotter in 3 vs 4 depending on which has the higher EGT for a given takeoff, making me think the two patterns reflect real shifts in mixture distribution, not measurement artifacts. There is no rhyme or reason to which pattern appears- it can shift on consecutive takeoffs under identical conditions on the same day. FWIW, I suspect neither #3 nor #4 is actually the leanest - #2 EGT usually but not always peaks first on leaning in cruise, and its CHT usually runs second hottest in climb (despite lower EGT), irrespective of whether 3 or 4 runs hottest (both CHT and EGT). Anyway, my only takeaway so far is that I can safely lean my hottest EGT (#3 or #4) up into the low 1400's to optimize power and improve fuel efficiency on a long climb, as long as the CHTs tolerate it. It's interesting to note that with a single probe EGT, this might have been a bad idea given the two distinct patterns of mixture distribution. Reasonable? Any other points to consider? Also, regarding high DA takeoff rolls (I have no experience), accurately tweaking the mixture to get low 1400s EGT seems precarious as heck . I have enough trouble staying on the center line, watching the ASI, checking the essential gauges, thinking about abort point, etc. in unison. It might be feasible if I used a particular high altitude field on a regular basis so could learn to set it roughly by instinct. The more complex technique to lean for high altitude takeoff has previously been covered well here.

Factory EGT gauge on 97J stopped working on last flight. I checked probe and found it completely gone (burned) inside exhaust pipe. IPC shows part # 880005-503. My search shows Alcor #86310 is current part no. Cheapest I can find is at AS for $395. Is there any other option to replace this probe?

I am looking for response from anyone flying a turbo or turbo-normalized aircraft. Most of the engines have a max manifold pressure based on continuous ROP max power settings. Have any of you experimented with trying to attain high horsepower numbers on the lean side of peak? I am assuming that running 80-90% HP while LOP may in some cases require MP in excess if not over redline. I know of more than a few TAT modded Bonanzas that are regularly operated at 85-90% power with excellent CHT numbers, however it does require enough MP to get to 70 to 100LOP. I would ask that those of you that use the POH recipe please refrain judging those who operate outside those parameters. I'd like to focus on engine ops and theory, so please keep the "you'll shoot your eye out" comments to a minimum unless they're accompanied by data or experience.

Guys! Need your help again with some issues on my 1989 M20J MSE. Few months ago I had a major electrical failure (you can read here), and now, after lots of avionics repair, we're getting things as they were before, little by little. But still got some annoying troubles: - We had our R1 Eletronics International Tach replaced by a new one, but now we have approx. 30-60 RPM error, for example, at T/O, full power, full high RPM, the tach displays 2730-2740, and once the plane starts rolling, it may rise to 2760. We have no reasons to believe that the prop its really at more than 2700 since with the old R1 it never excedded it, and any adjustment was made at the governor, and we had checked rotational speed with a Tuning Fork (is this the right english term to reffer to it?) and it indicated 2700, full power, full rpm. We had not replaced the mag sensors, though, we are using the old ones. Do you think this could be the problem? - We replaced our Gauge Cluster, but sometimes, when you push PTT (both sides), the oil pressure indication drop till yellow arc. This happens on both radios (GNS430 and KX155), on transmitting modes. It seems to happen with frequencies higher than 130,00 MHz, but I'm not sure of this and if it has anything to do with it. - Our EGT/OAT (B & D P/N 0230-003, Mooney P/N 880001-509) is out of work: I know it gets energized, because it is noticeable when I pull the CB, but it just give wrong indications such as -30°C when the real OAT its like 30°C, and no rise in EGT at all while leaning. - Finally, the interior lights seem to be flashing at very high frequency, slower when the engine is at slower speeds, and higher, when the engine is at higher speeds. During flight its almost imperceptible, but during taxi its quite clear. Some general info: its a 28V system, SN 24-3139. We have replaced the Voltage Regulator and tested it several times in the plane (direct in the VR and with a multimeter through the cig lighter) and it seems pretty steady on the correct range. And at last, but not least, I am (as does the plane) in Brazil, so all of these nice avionics shops you guys indicates here at Mooneyspace are sadly unavailable for me! So, any help will be much appreciated!!! Tércio

Hi Folks. For those who have a G1000 system in their Mooney, a question about variance between EGT readings. I've been experimenting with different power settings, which is making me focus on the EGT/CHT gauges to see how my engine reacts. Today I noticed an interesting thing: the EGT gauge in the standard Map mode (the small sliders on the left) which shows and denotes the hottest cylinder is reading out exactly 100° hotter than the same cylinder shows when you put it on the Engine page. This is only true for the EGT reading...the CHT reading shows the same in both modes. Anybody ever see this before?

I have been analyzing the data from my newly installed JPI 730 and noticed that towards the end of a flight from PDK to ORL the EGTs on cylinder 2 have begun to look like a sawblade. It can jump or drop 100dF in a matter of seconds. I'm afraid this means that I have a sticking exhaust valve. Does anyone else have any suggestions to why it is doing this? This did not appear until last week. Here is a link for a shorter flight that where it is doing the same so you can see what I'm talking about: https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/487165/3ee05526-c621-4950-b2ec-e39ee45c4002 and the original flight where it started: https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/484105/a3b979b9-e24b-4b91-a889-a8e6e55d7520 What do yall think?

I have read a lot of post on the forums that mention swapping fuel injectors to help with EGT and GAMI spreads. I have not seen an overview of the process from ground zero. As I have read some of the threads it seems as simple as swapping the high EGT injector with the low EGT injector. As I read more it seems like there are contributing factors to EGT discrepencies such as induction leaks, probe placement, spark plugs and fine wire spark plug cables. I asking this because my plane is going in for its annual and would like idea of what questions to ask before having them swap injectors or if I need to at all. I have a 82 J with a EDM 700, FT 101 fuel flow indicator and GAMI injectors. My FT101 appears to be almost .5 GPH off indicating a higher fuel burn but I have a few result of flights I can share. Flight #1 5500 MSL, 24" MP, 2400 RPM, 9.4 GPH LOP. #1 1421 356, #2 1407 321, #3 1360 308, #4 1425 333 Flght #2 7500 MSL, WOT 22.5"MP 2500 RPM, 9.5 GPH LOP, #1 1417 352, #2 1408 326, #3 1348 290, #4 1447 343 The best I can tell so far my GAMI spread is between .2-.5, I'm still playing with it but my feeling is .3, but is that possible wth almost 90 degree difference in EGT's. The order in which the cylinders peak is #2,#3,#1,#4 After I get the EGT's figured out I'm going after the CHT's Any advice is appreciated.

My "J" is ready for its first annual since I bought it one year ago. My new mechanic refuses to sign it off because the original EGT has been replaced with a EI analyzer which he says is not a "primary" part. He wants me to replace it with the old original part. He also has an issue with the nav lights because the nav lights were replaced with LED lights and don't have a Form 337. So I am wondering why the last eight mechanics didn't have a problem with it? Also, the "J" I owned before this one had the same 4 cylinder EGT/CHT guage and that passed as well. I've seen the same gauge in several other Mooneys too. I would consider going back to a one cylinder engine monitor a safety issue. Why would I want to return to monitoring one cylinder when I have the EI instrument which monitors all four cylinders EGT's AND their CHT's? And I would consider the LED lights much safer than the original and hotter nav lights too. I mean is replacing a nav light really a MAJOR alteration that requires a 337? Am I the only one that thinks that these two issues are ridiculous????

Hello Forum, I just bought my first Mooney (a '68 M20F with J windshield, cowl closure, and other mods). What a great plane. But on the 15 hour flight back home, I noticed EGT readings I didn't understand. I was wondering if anyone on the forum had any thoughts on the issue. The plane has an Insight GEM 602 for EGT and CHT on all cylinders, plus an analog EGT meter in the panel. After engine start, EGT's and CHT's come up evenly across all four cylinders, and come up further during the runup. In climb running full rich, they remain fairly even across the board, and CHTs remain around 375F. But once I configure for cruise and lean conservatively (10% richer than book ROP fuel flow for my chosen power setting, measured with a Shadin fuel flow meter), the EGT for cylinder #3 starts acting up. It oscillates, plus or minus 50F at first, and then gradually the oscillations increase until after an hour of flight they are going from bottom to top to bottom of the EGT scale. The temperature will drop off the bottom of the scale for maybe 5 seconds, and then will shoot to the top of the scale and stay there for another 5 seconds. After 2 hours, the reading biases towards the bottom of the scale, and eventually the EGT drops off the bottom of the scale and stays there. The analog EGT meter in the panel does not quite follow the same pattern, but it's similar. It reads around 1200F through the runup, then flaps around rapidly in flight so much it is impossible to get a solid read on it. It never goes above 1200-1300F. Then it starts reading colder and colder and eventually it, too, falls to the bottom of the scale (<800F) and stays there for the remainder of the flight. I do not know which cylinder this EGT is reading. I assume it is cylinder #3. The EGTs on the other 3 cylinders are all steady and respond as expected according to the GEM. CHTs on all cylinders, including cylinder 3, are always steady in the 375F range. Cylinder #3 CHT is no different than the other cylinders. The engine otherwise seems to run like a clock. It only has about 650 hours on it SMOH (Penn Yan). The aircraft cruises at 150-155 KTAS at around 65% power and 10000', so it seems to be putting out full rated power. There are no unusual sounds or smells or rough running. Any ideas?

I've been messing around with running LOP and like the results as far as GPH (8.5 at 7-8k) and CHT temps ( -30 degrees) go. My question is regarding my EGT's. While running 100 degrees ROP the highest and lowest are on average only 10 degrees apart. LOP they are 80-90 degrees apart and overall about 75-100 degrees hotter with the hottest being in the mid to high 1400's. Is this consistent with running LOP vs ROP? Engine runs smooth, although it did feel a little weird pull back so much the first few times.