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I haven't started my instrument training yet but I was hopping that when I do that I can practice procedures at home in X-Plane just like I do now sometimes even for VFR flying. Are X-Plane and MSFS not good enough for that purpose?

I don’t. I’m not sure but my impression is that most are based on existing engines also available for the home market, whether PrePar3d, x-plane or MSFS. They all have their limitations without avionics add-ons, some of which are very impressive but might not be available in an approved unit. They are still very valuable.

First of all thanks everyone for your comments. It's awesome to have a community that's both incredibly passionate about this subject and is comfortable disagreeing and seeing out all sides of arguments. I've given it some thought and my current opinion is to finish my PPL, and more than likely get my IR before buying a plane. I wouldn't be opposed to buying a plane for my IR but I'm not super stressed about it. Ultimately once I buy my plane I really won't get much more instruction after that. Spending a bit more time earlier in my aviation life to get more training seems like a very worthwhile investment. While I think it'd be fully possible for me to safely complete my training with my own Mooney I think this is a much safer option in addition to not having many people competent in Mooney's in my area. I think it'd be smart to get Mooney specific training when I do buy one. Other things like buying the best plane I can, avionics etc. are duly noted. I doubt I'll be buying my forever plane any time soon (my forever plane will be a G800 with Camilla Cabello as my flight attendant/wife). Overall I feel like a short body plane better encompasses my mission and I'm sure I'll have plenty of lifestyle changes in the next 5-10-20 years. All of this is fantastic advice but wanted to highlight this as it's one of my particular worries. I'll be sure to get a strong idea of all mechanics available to me. One question I have is how do you deal with mechanics when they aren't in your city? If you have an unexpected issue when your nearest mechanic is a few hours away how does this work? I think this is a fantastic point that I "knew" but didn't really appreciate. Ultimately the purchase price is daunting but just the beginning. Which truthfully just makes me want to buy a better plane. Buy overall I feel the point to take away from this is buying a solid, forward seeing, safe plane is more important than getting the best deal on the block. I'm supposed to have a first girlfriend? I'm again finding a bit more stuff about maintenance and mechanics. I have friends that are aircraft mechanics and I'm sure they'd be delighted to help where they can. But they're armed forces mechanics working on jet engines so I'm not sure exactly how much help they'd be. If I wanted to stay here I'd buy an anchor. Wanted to highlight 3, something I came in believing and am glad to see everyone emphasize this. I've flown the Mooney in MSFS a fair amount of times. Unfortunately have no comparison! This is simultaneously the best and worst time to get an experimental. I have no one telling me this is a bad idea, but I have (hopefully) a long life ahead of me. The RV series is particularly interesting but it's not something I'm willing to invest in at this point in my life.

MK, expand the above to see the highlighted areas… 1) buying expensive things should be scary… check! This keeps us on our toes, putting in the required work. Extra drive to not make errors… 2) I lived in the middle of nowhere… I wanted to go somewhere else… check! This is why we have Mooneys. 3) Buying a good plane, not the cheapest plane… keeps critical fixes limited to pre-planned annual activities…. But always be prepared for the surprise… engine outs can and will happen… I bought the cheapest M20C, and have been sharing war stories about it for a decade… but, it got me to where I am today… 4) I got a copy of MSFS in 1983… first flight lesson was a decade later… its fun to fly a Mooney in their sim, and be able to point out where the flaws in their model occur… Make steps in the right direction every day… Best regards, -a-

X-Plane has better flight modeling. MSFS has better graphics. DCS for flying combat.

@haymak3rupdate. Grandson called me yesterday and has the system working. He downloaded a game he plays with friends, something with ghosts, to test it out. Says the VR is really nice. Next was downloading MSFS and I told him to download the Mooney bravo module. I’ll get to see it for the first time this weekend.

1) Get an Ovation… only because you want one. 2) Train in your forever plane… because it makes less sense to train in another plane, and then transition to your forever-plane. It only takes one confusion error to make a bad day… 3) know that IFR training is flexible… you will bump up against your cognitive limits when given the opportunity… 4) know that your CFII can see your limit… probably before you can. 5) At the moment, you think using a different plane will somehow make your training easier… Remember your CFII is controlling your cog overload lever…. 6) Congrats for asking the right question… 7) Ask your CFII if he can dial it down one notch… this way you won’t have to buy a new plane… 8) Imagine buying a new plane… thinking it is somehow going to get easier… and it does…! Then Joe CFII dials the cog overload lever up one notch…. 9) Are you going to be happy with Joe CFII then? 10) Let’s say you decide to dial up the cog overload lever yourself… Try to complete the IR in 10days…. Fly each day… powering through the cog overload that occurs within each flight… Come out the other end with IR in hand… 11) Do you still want an LB that you haven’t had flying for a year yet? First year of ownership of any machine comes with many surprises… that won’t make operating it very pleasing… 12) soooo… you have a year and almost 100hrs in this plane already… that’s still pretty new according to our insurance people…. Changing horses mid stream, will definitely set you back further… start back at the top… or…. Go O! That’s just crazy talk…. PP thoughts only, not a CFII, did the 10day IR, in a C172, before owning the M20R… hit the cog overload challenge, each day, each flight, and came back for more… There is soooo much to know, to get ready for, to practice, to repeat… to execute… while reciting FARs and procedures… You Can Do It… in any airplane. It’s all about you. I used the MSFS to practice procedures learned along the way… most of the IR isn't flying the plane… Flying the sim isn’t really about flying the plane either… Real pilots do this in twin jets!!! (Go Will.i) Managing cog overload while flying in the soup is an important part of the training… because, in real life, cog overload can exist, in IMC… when you are set out, and allowed to fly solo… and later with family aboard… cog overload can be (pick a bad outcome )… There isn’t anything more challenging than training for the IR… Except going to med school while training for the IR….add some child care into the mix, just for fun… Go use MSFS… see if you can bump into your cog limits at a much lower cost…. Increase the weather variables until you reach your limits… it’s fun being human…. It comes with limitations. Best regards, -a-

Thanks! The throttle quadrant I purchased earlier this year from eBay, there's a guy who 3d prints them and sells them as plug-n-play. Hindsight, I should have built it myself because getting it to mount into the rest of the vertical column was a pain and I feel like I could have made them a little more precise, but it's done now. The yokes are honeycomb yokes that I have cut up to pieces and rewired lol. This is all a big learning curve but at some point I plan on making my own to have them more realistic, but these will work for now. All of the switches will be wired up to Arduino boards. There are a few options for the software/switch integration, and I am not certain which one I am going to use yet but once I get to the wiring stage I will make that determination. The reason I state this is, I want to find one solution that I can use for X-Plane and MSFS so that I can test and use both flight sims but haven't had the time to test out different switches, potentiometers, and LEDs.

With apologies for the minor threadjack.. Has anyone tried the “Maverick” expansion pack for MSFS? It’s really pretty fantastic, and the price is right (free). https://www.flightsimulator.com/become-a-top-gun-pilot-in-free-expansion-available-today/

Simulation is a wonderful tool… I used MSFS a decade before I got my license…. used it for the IR in concert with my actual IR training… I messed up a simulated approach… too high/fast, the CFII remarked I couldn’t land from where I was…. Technically, I wouldn’t land from there in real life… but, chopped the throttle, crossed the controls, aimed for the threshold…. Done…. Simulation is definitely a form of aviation knowledge… Best regards, -a-

How original was your flight simulator? Did it have monochrome color? Wireframe buildings? Did the C172 always start at a now defunct airport in Lake Michigan? Did you load a copy of the program from a 5 1/4” floppy disk? Characteristics of MSFS in the 80s…. The dawn of the PC age… Simple program that was great at fanning the flames of flighty dreams… Best regards, -a-

Even today, MSFS with VR is pretty accessible, although definitely still a WIP.

An autopilot should not be a crutch. In a scenario where an airplane goes from level (ish) flight to a multi thousand FPM descent in a matter of seconds, especially due to weather, no autopilot is going to correct for that and many, including the GFC will disconnect. if you think pressing the level button in this scenario would have been useful, I think you need to do a bit more research on capabilities. Autopilot is not MSFS slew mode.

-R-, The cool thing about Mooneys… they all very much perform in a very similar fashion… The older ones have their airspeed indicator calibrated in mph…. The newer ones in kias… Generally speaking… If you are familiar with the traffic pattern… Down wind 90 Base leg 80 Final approach 70 Find the stall speed chart… Keep all Bank angles to 30° or less… For simplicity, use landing flaps… full down… the flaps will generate a need for up trim… to stay level… After that…. Trim for speed… Power to maintain altitude… Adjust Power to set descent rate at a constant air speed… Magic potion… Get your sim set up flying the downwind… gear down, flaps down, level at 90kias, 1k’ agl (above ground level)… Whatever power setting that is in “MP (manifold pressure)… the plane won’t descend until you remove power… Rule of thumb… remove 1” of MP for each 100fpm you want to descend… 300’pm is nice gentle descent… pull out 3” to begin the descent… Doing this in a sim is a blast… I use a keyboard and MSFS…. Many MSers use sims… search the threads…. Whatever you do… don’t use these numbers to try and fly a real plane…. There isn’t enough detail or experience conveyed… I started with control line, moved to RC models, saw MSFS in college, took a discovery flight a decade later… two years later I was a pilot… two years after that I was a Mooney owner… Sim On! We all started somewhere… in a similar way… Best regards, -a-

Where’s our economist? 1) How many chips does it take to have a car not be ready for sale.... one? 2) What is the challenge? JIT manufacturing has always worked before... The pandemic has put a huge wave in the supply / demand curve... The rapid change in what people want need is great! The follow-up rapid return of what people need now, is equally great! 3) Who is going back to the office? 4) Who hasn’t changed their needs at all? 5) What is going on in China? China doesn’t use JIT as much as we do.... They have been storing commodity chips in advance... 6) Also... China is at odds with a few other governments... and won’t be working much as a team mate for a while... 7) The US government is putting another program together for improving chip manufacturing in the US... The Senate just signed something today... 8) What’s really odd... we haven’t seen the economy grow at this pace for several years... 9) With this much growth... there will be mismatches with all of the supply of everything... including oil and gasoline... 10) There are smart people that figure these things out every day.... 11) The news is making a huge deal out of it... 12) For anyone buying an Nvidea video card to play MSFS... there is always a wait, and a price to pay to get the best... 13) Lumber experienced a spike in pricing... there are still trees... and deliveries have returned... Home Depot raised prices... and have started returning the prices back towards the new normal of the day... 14) Even Baltic shipping prices had peaked, and for weeks have headed back towards normal... 15) There is a lot going on around the world... 16) There is a lot going on locally... 17) The pandemic is winding down.... yet still here... vaccinated people are no longer wearing masks everywhere... (some places it is still important...) 18) Everyone is returning to what they used to do.... at a high rate... 19) My home streets are empty... everyone went down the shore... 20) Keep your eyes on the economy... and the unemployment.... and the jobs created... 21) Overall... there is a shortage causing a delay... it’s not a shortage, and it’s not coming... 22) If there was a shortage like the plants burned down.... the supply disruptions would be huge... the chip manufacturers have just come through the second quarterly earnings announcements... where their sales and earnings per share have beat and exceeded expectations... all but Intel... (who has a technical supply challenge)... Something called supply chain management keeps all the plans B for parts organized... have no fear... these guys are working overtime this year... 23) For fun read up on some chip manufacturers lately... AVGO, NVDA, AMD, MRVL, QRVO, APPL, MU, NXPI... The Who’s who inside all things electric components.... 24) Next on the list of excitement... the companies that build the machinery that build chips... they are getting orders to build more machines.... AMAT and LRCX... The sun is really Shining... Yay! Refire up the plan for the Roaring 20s version II! PP thoughts only, not an economist... Best regards, -a-

TMA, Your gonna have to show a screen shot or something to demonstrate what you have... Also mention if this skill is available for the MSFS sim... Best regards, -a-

Hello all, I am new to simulator world. I have spent a few hours with MSFS 2020 searching for a way to change the display. I do not have a Garmin 1000. It looks as thought there are ways to purchase "mods" or whatever and install them in your "community" file, which I have failed to do thus far. Then I see that some oar of the opinion to scrap MS and go with other vendors. 1980 K model Garmin 480 with MX 20, FD, pretty standard for the 1980's. So a 430 or 530 works fine, I it snowing in Denver for next couple of days. Thought I would at least fly a few approaches, Not going to happen at this rate. My son has an up to date gaming computer he is reluctantly allowing me to use until he HAS to have it back. I could care less about the bells and whistles. Just pick departure, dest, approaches and go. Thanks

If you are trying to learn the avionics, I would look at sim forums and inquire about the fidelity of the avionics in either the base product or add-ones, I don't know MSFS but, for example the pseudo-Garmins in x-plane do not have full functionality. OTOH, the Reality XP add-in uses the actual Garmin trainer. There are, of course trade-offs.

https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=Msfs2020&quick=1 Some of the topics covered for MSFS 2020 -a-

Anybody know if carenado works on X? Can I get Mooney Ovation in MSFS X ?

Are your referring to MSFS 2010 OR 202O in reference to the Carenado. Can I drop it into either folder?

The way my computer runs the MSFS program is through a company called Steam... Steam is an online vendor that supports all kinds of gaming programs... So... for about $50... and a quick download... the older version was running... The 2020 version was also available... probably using the cloud to handle all the great graphics... https://store.steampowered.com The inherent details are pretty good... specially for the memory aspect for what button to push when.... As far as the quality of the sim... the flaps don’t cause the nose drop... and a few other things that just aren’t right... But, setting cloud heights, add some turbulence, work on your scanning skills... it is a great exercise... If the version you get has Rod Machado lessons in it... see how long it takes to ace each chapter of the series... It is more of an exercise in you getting calibrated with it... not very helpful for the real world flying... but a perfect exercise for getting a feeling for procedures... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a-

Are you talking about only the default aircraft in MSFS? Carenado sells a few aircraft with the GNS530, including the Mooney Ovation R

I have X-plane 11 and have a Mooney Encore with a 530, a 430. S-tec 55X auto pilot and a 900 engine monitor. The rest are steam gauges. I also have MSFS 2020 and it has nice eye candy I still think x-plane 11 is a better flight sim.

Thanks, So true. The latest 2020 MSFS, as far as I can see is all Garmin 1000. A search for "Mooney" brings up nothing. There a zillion youtube tutorials but none I have found that actually show you have to load the Mooney. I also have MSFS 2002, but it will not load on newer machines. I do not need to go with bill gates, just wondering if anyone has a sim up and running with 400/500 that works. Tks