carusoam

Will anyone take the Gill side of this discussion? -a-

Very nice P! -a-

From a practical point of view.... 0) In the beginning there was the "reliable" compass. A pilot needed to look at it each time he adjusted the heading of his aircraft. Nearly all of the time navigating was spent looking at the compass. 1) in the last 50 years, The DG nearly put the compass on the ropes. Adjust the DG heading to the compass every 15 minutes. 2) in the last 40 years, The HSI with an internal compass correction made looking at the compass a strategy for error detection. Check heading on HSI Prior to taxi to verify the operation of the HSI. 3) in the last 30 years, Loran made the compass somewhat more obsolete. if the compass broke it could be found somewhere near the panel, if the pilot could remember where it was last mounted. Compasses had a visible air bubble in them at that time. 4) in the last 20 years, GPS made Loran look like a Radio Shack TRS 80 computer with a giant floppy disk. The compass air bubble (CAB) was visibly larger as well. 5) in the last 10 years, More than one certified GPS in the cockpit, running from independent power supplies, and/or battery back up made single GPSs obsolete. SBs that are 40 years old, that rely on hokie demagnitization techniques, are good to have, so, when you are training for the IFR rating, using the compass to demonstrate your skills, you can show your instructor your position on the globe, by how much the compass lags or leads, your turn to certain headings... There is also a question on the written that covers that topic as well. On my M20C, the compass lived in the shadow of a metal tube, making long, compass based, turns nearly impossible. Expect to pay a lot to be able to fix the compass to perfect condition, or consider purchasing another GPS with it,s own set of batteries. Emergency navigation in and around NJ... If lost with only an operating compass for navigation, fly Eastish until you reach a large body of water (Atlantic Ocean).. - If the air is warm, turn left. - If the air is cold turn right. Airports will appear in the windshield. Characterize these statements as usable humor....if you would be so kind. Thank you and best regards, -a-

Jim, You can see what is on my mind regarding safety of flight... I can't imagine slipping with ice on any airframe. Best regards, -a-

Open thoughts on Mooney slipping... These are not recommendations.... 1) Body length is most important to this argument... 2) Tail structure changed in 66 also gets a mention here. 3) A,b,c,d,&e are nearly the same. 65 and younger have a smaller (shorter) rudder, less control. 4) F,G,J&K being similar (mid length). 5) L,M,r,s &TN (long bodies). Most storied 6) Modified planes with heavier engines get an extra discussion... Momentum vs control forces... 7) Shorter rudders are less effective than longer rudders, the corresponding control forces in the slip can be stronger with the larger control surface. 8) Control of the entry and exit of the slip is important. "lazily" snapping in or out of the slip is not recommended. 9) Back CG increases the risk as well. Increasing the challenge of recovering from a stall. 10) Cross controlling increases the risk. Can't slip without cross control. 11) Keep the nose controlled or pointed downward prevents the loss of speed that allows the stall. The idea of the slip is to slow down, not fall down... 12) Long bodied Moonies have been fitted with pretty effective speed brakes. Plan to use them if you have them.... 13) A well known pilot of MAC was killed slipping near the ground, the best we understand. Where else would you use a slip other than near the ground? 14) Source: this is data collected from MooneySpace and is open to discussion... I am not an expert... 15) Slipping doesn't necessarily cause Mooneys to fall out of the sky. Stalling while slipping increases the risk of falling. 16) Adding up the associated risks may make you question if you want to try it the first time anywhere near the ground... Associated risks... Being slow, near the ground, cross controlled, snapping in or out of the slip, with large tail surface and the full fulcrum of the long body, the extra mass of a big bore engine...slide the CG back by adding some xtra weight to the baggage area, don't control speed very well or don't keep the nose down... Did I miss anyone??? It's good to practice at safe altitudes. Best regards, -a-

I hear ya Hank. I maxed out at 6.00' My external plug was added on early in its working life. My gill battery leaked and ruined my battery box in my M20C. rebuilding the box cost more than a battery. One challenge in the C... The plug operator is stationed between the wing and the spinning propeller. One distraction away from serious injury. Same kind of distraction that leads to gear up landings.... Having the external connection is very helpful. Having it back in the tail cone is even better. It is a better procedure to charge the battery, using the plug, than to jump start the plane. Best regards, -a-

Dang.... We suffer from photo largus. Our photos are too large to post, followed by, shrinking them, we lose the required definition... I wanted to see M20F's photos showing GPS vs. ASI.... The TNF appears to be the bargain time traveller of the Mooney World! Craig, any help with this one? Best regards, -a-

Steve, I have a pair of Gill 24 V. batteries that were different ages ( one old and one new) from when I bought my plane. One went dead over this winter. The remaining one is clearly not as strong as the new replacement. Replacing both at the same time is painfully expensive. $600 for the pair. I have been using Gill batteries for over a decade with mediocre performance. Information from this site indicates that the Concorde is a better device. I would like to swap out the older Gill for a new gel cell Concorde when the opportunity arises. Charging system allows one battery to trickle charge while the other battery is in use. How different can the batteries be and still work as designed in this dual set-up? It seems that some level of difference is acceptable. Charging at 28V for a 24V battery leaves some room for difference I suppose. Overall my concern is that one battery will be charged or discharged by the other.... Thanks for the advice. Best regards, -a-

Congrats John!!!! Best regards, -a-

Gary, I picture Becca parking the J methodically, quickly and safely, followed by jumping out of the cockpit and spouting (John Force style) Those Camguard additives really work! JF would bark "Those Jet Hot coatings really work!" Her speeds are creeping up on the mystical 201 mph number. Best regards, -a-

Big Tex, Is the situation you have possibly because the compass is mounted on the metal post? My experience in the M20C, the post would shadow the compass causing extreme lag when making 360 deg turns. It became obvious during IFR training. It would slow up going through a particular heading, probably N, hang for a second, than accelerate to catch up. Or do you have a consistent offset? I recall a discussion on this topic a while ago. I thought a new compass was needed. It had the same problem. Mooney's solution was to mount the compass to the top of the instrument panel instead. Hope this may help. Best regards, -a-

What cooling ducts do you have at the back of the dog house? I believe there are two that are aimed at the magnetos. I think you might have one aimed at the vacuum pump? Is it possible that the "extra" hole that you have is for a cooling duct. Thinking out loud for you... -a-

Thanks G., I'll try at home. I am performing my annual research on apps and sites to collect preflight data. This one may be helpful. Best regards, -a-

John how's the search going? Is your description above related to a machine you are currently looking at? Best regards, -a-

I did mine from the inside. Outside I believe is too hard to get to. My eyeball preferred to rotate instead of open. Best regards, -a-

Steve, That's what I understand. One battery is selected and the other is trickle charging. But, does it require them both to be identical or can they both different? Example: Batt 1: Old vented Gil battery. Batt 2: New gel cell Concorde battery. The system is so well thought out, it would have warnings every where not to mix types or something similar. Or did I forget those warnings? That's my current battery concern. My dual battery experience is extremely limited... Best regards, -a-

Dr. Bill, Thanks for the explanation. That all makes sense now. I forgot how the polarity protection worked and that it was even there. My 65 C had the external plug added as a factory option. It resides in the area near the battery. It should be a relatively simple, but expensive addition of sheet metal work and paint/parts/wire. It will be worth it on the day that you need it for sure. Contact the factory/MSC to see what's involved for support. Best regards, -a-

Becca and Byron, You guys win a prize for delivering on the numbers, complete with technical reasoning. Congrats on your accomplishment, -a-

For the eyeball vent, you may have to hold the body with one hand and rotate with the other. Dirt and corrosion may make it a little difficult... -a-

Did anyone get it to work with an iPad? I don't recall the tech issue, but couldn't get it to work. Best regards, -a-

Nice intro Mark, While growing up, I used to live in Vineyard Haven during the summers. The Island is Nice. The Mooney gave me the ability to visit my family in MA from my home base in NJ. $100 lobster roll sandwiches! Mad Martha's makes the best ice cream. Go Vineyarders! Anyone else want to add to this old thread??? Don't be shy. Best regards, -a-

JumpJet... There isn't enough information on there website to even understand what I would get for what I would pay for. The pictures they have seem to be of other peoples equipment. Their pilot has extensive hellicopter experience. One limitation that was clear, I think...Two weeks advanced notice. That's a challenge for me as a service guy. I don't get to wait two weeks to save money or choose to fly on a corporate jet. Would we sharing the flight with other people? Are they even in the flying business yet? I couldn't tell. Maybe I missed something... Their website crashed my iPad a few times... Back to Mooney things... Best regards, -a-

Lood, As a friendly gesture, I went out to pick up my POH that was outside in my car... Unfortunately, the electrical schematic does not indicate where the external plug is wired into the system. When I first bought my plane, I had difficulty using ground power while at AAA (All American). In short, it seems to require the master switch to be on to charge the battery. There is a relay that needs to close to make that happen. Why the relay opens when you engage the switch....your voltage must drop out below what the relay requires. That's my best educated guess. Gil makes a very nice "smart" charger that may revive your old battery, but it costs nearly as much as a new battery. Let's get to the bottom of this so I can update my POH notes... Good luck. Best regards, -a-

Gel cell batteries seem to have lower maintenance requirements and don't spill acid on your aluminum investment. I switched to Gill gel cells on my M20C about eight years ago. Two to three years of battery life in a tough environment. I only have Gil experience, but Concorde seems to have the better record at Mooneyspace. I currently have a two battery system. Unless I swap out both batteries, I am stuck with Gil wet cell batteries to maintain balance during charging. The only concern for the gel batteries is high altitude flight...they are not vented, and MAY be physically strained at high altitudes??? Does anyone have deeper knowledge on the subject of Gel Cells at altitude, and mixture of Battery Types/manufacturers? Hope this helps. -a-

Dave said, Having said all that, there are ways to achieve ownership on a budget. Outside of marrying up, winning the lotto, or inheritance, it usually involves partnerships, lower performance airplanes, sweat equity and often experimental status. A plane of your own can happen to the average guy, but sadly, not as often as I'd like to see. It's almost like, it you have to ask, you need to keep renting... but there are ways to achieve the dream, but sometimes it's stepping stones and sometimes it's not the vision you once envisioned. My thoughts exactly... And over time it might work out better than you once envisioned... Be ready when it happens. Plan to minimize your risk. Best regards, -a-