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The interesting thing is that my 1987 K doesn’t have relays at all. It’s just wired right to the limit switches. And yes, that’s how it is in the wiring diagram too.

Sometimes people are just looking for the excuse to hang it up….

When mine did that it was a relay. Mooney used a couple of different relays. The original design used socketed relays that are available and easily replaced. The “improved” design (which I’ve been told by a well known MSC is no better) uses soldered-in relays making replacement somewhat more difficult

I paid Hector about $1,600 for covering my yokes in 2023 with a similar design. Worth every penny.

My comment was not meant as a defense of the OKC nor a criticism of Dev. It was simply me recognizing that they must have really done something to piss Dev off to elicit such a strongly worded rebuke. I experienced OKC through my dad's eyes and it was not a good experience. My dad was able to work through the SI process after bypass surgery. Several years later his PCP innocently prescribed him Metformin for elevated blood sugar levels; he was not a type II diabetic (and still isn't at 87) but was trending in the wrong direction. OKC's view was that a Metformin script equaled a diabetes diagnosis. He could not un-ring that bell even with a letter from his PCP, AME and blood work. I think it would have been possible to correct if he wasn't on an existing SI. He hung it up after a few years muddling through two SI's a year. He would start working on the next year's SI approval shortly after being issued his current SI. That was nearly 10 years ago. I'd hoped that things had improved.

Definitely check voltage at the starter first as @N201MKTurbosuggested. To do this I disconnected the big wire at the starter and had my wife crank it while I held the VM. There’s a troubleshooting guide for Continental starters (I think, or maybe it’s a Concorde battery one) which has you measure at the battery like you did and at the starter while cranking. It supposed to be something like 24V minimum at the starter. That’s from memory. After I checked all this, I realized my problem was the starter adapter which really sucked.

I believe removing the copilot seats, front and rear, might be easier than removing the right radio rack, depending on your panel setup. Makes it easy to lay on your back on the floor and reach the starter relay. Your legs can lay up into the rear of the plane where the rear seat goes. Not too bad under there that way.

Thus basic med. I dream of flying my plane to Mars, but mostly I just fly it to cheeseburgers.

The easiest way is to remove the right radio rack. It is not as hard as it sounds. I would do some more troubleshooting before I did any of that. I would connect your meter to the big wire that goes to the starter and crank it and see if you have any voltage there. If you have voltage there, you have a bad starter, not a bad relay.

Flying outside The US

Yeah, Bahamas has been on my bucket list but recently they have decided to 'up the fees' so I'm no longer that motivated.

Good point. I searched the US, Canada and Australian Registries. There are 6,823 Mooney's registered in those 3 countries. Obviously there are a few more in Europe and with less in South America and Africa. 159 are not M20 - they are the Mooney version of Ercoupe, A10's, M18's and M22's 96 are wood wing M20 and M20A 2,431 are Short Body 116 M20B 1.351 M20C 88 M20D 876 M20E 3,212 are Mid Body 770 M20F 126 M20G 1,492 M20J 824 M20K Only 925 are Long Body 17 M20L 263 M20M 427 M20R 60 M20S 128 M20TN 12 M20U 18 M20V So it seems logical that the greatest number with the greatest need should get priority attention if funds are made available. Luckily there is some commonality of parts "in the fleet". If you look at wing and tail assembly part numbers on the Long Bodies, you can see the M and early R's have many exactly the same part numbers and the later R's and TN seem to share the same part numbers. Of course the engine mounts are unique to each model. Maybe some things can be made in larger quantities and put on the shelf. But with only 128 Acclaims in the world (maybe a few more in Europe, etc) for instance, why would Mooney/LASAR build Acclaim engine mounts in advance?. They might sit forever. Seems better to build to order on demand. I suspect that there is more commonality amongst the Mid Bodies as a group and also amongst the Short Bodies as a group. Combined with the much greater numbers in the fleet, it would seem that these groups need immediate attention. @Fritz1 is hopeful that a $900K infusion by Owners or some other "financial solution" will put parts for his Bravo on the shelf, but the need for the rest of the fleet is as great or greater. @Paul Thomas is likely right "I just don't think Mooney/LASAR have it as easy as people think".

For 99% it is Canada, Mexico, and Bahamas with the latter being the largest and they accept basic med.

I am more curious as to why anyone wouldn’t be flying under basic med.

Have you had to deal with OKC on ANYTHING beyond just a normal 3rd Class AME in-office exam? If not, then be careful giving OKC much credit. Their default attitude/response is one of denial and demand for a plethora of data backed up with a large dose of 'protect the public'/'save the children' rationalization. Oh, and time is NOT important to THEM whatsoever (except how little time you are give to provide info back to them!). So, yeah, I've had lousy experiences, too!

I have no idea what leather covered J yokes are worth, but they look fantastic.

FYI, in case you didn't know: you do NOT need anything beyond Basic Med to get your commercial; 2nd Class only needed to actually get paid to fly.

My experience is that the relays are the weak link. Mooney made a few mistakes in the design of that circuit that impact reliability, at least in my 1997 Encore.

I'd been on an SI for over 20 years to maintain my 3rd Class. Had it down to a science. Then, last year, without explanation, OKC decided they wanted not just a status letter, but my Dr.'s clinical notes with VERY specific items covered. They made it clear that a 'Summary Notes' from my visit would NOT be acceptable! While I had to sometimes go back and forth with nurses to get the required items included in a status letter, that was manageable. Dr.'s clinical notes, on the other hand, are nearly impossible to get edited after the visit. The odds of a Dr. including EXACTLY what the SI letter demanded would be slim to none... and slim was no where in the room! This 'pushed me over the edge' to get Basic Med. It was incredibly easy! And, now, I don't need to deal with the OKC bureaucracy ever again. The only Basic Med restriction that bothers me is not being able to fly out of the country. But in nearly 5 decades I've never done that, so not sure it's going to matter much! Of course if I hit lottery my spiffy new PC-12 will require me to deal with renewing a 3rd Class

currently basicmed, mostly due to my ame retiring during covid. originally i had my class 2 and basicmed, 2nd has expired and until i get my commercial, i just have no reason to bother with renewing. heck, i'm not really planning on flying for hire, i may not bother with it. well unless someone wants to hire me to fly jets 8)

I think you should offer $1 and then tell me who is selling them

Curious of how many of us moved to Basic Med. Started a poll:

Without commercial flight ambitions, the reduced potential for issues over time was a big motivator. The big limitations do not bother me, I never fly over 18k and Mooney only has 4 seats. It took some time to find a doctor, but once the rhythm was established, it was not an issue. I miss that I cannot fly to nearby Canada, technically, and hope they accept Basic Med in the future.

How many of us are using Basic Med? Very interested in the details, as well. Post to share your ease or difficulty in getting it regrets or satisfaction your motivation in converting

Geez Dev, don’t mince words, tell us how you really feel! I’m sure that your feelings are justified. I’m sorry that you had a lousy experience.