M016576 Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 I stand corrected- spruce lists the 650 for 10500-11000, Sarasota lists them for 9500. 430w's go for 6-7k used. So the cost delta (assuming you have a similar install cost between the two), would be between 2500-5000 depending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 True about the delta between a 430W and a GTN 650, at least in my case. Initially I had a 430W under my GTN 750. I was able to trade in the 430 W with a credit against a new GTN 650. The cost was $2,000 plus installation, which was reasonable. The units are not pin compatible, but the new wiring and connectors were not a big deal. The GTN 650 is a far superior box, in my opinion. Had I gone with the GTN 650 initially, I would not have paid for two installations. If you don't mind us asking, what was the install cost for the 650, over the 430? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 I'll look that up next week when I get back to my office. It may be a bit difficult to break out from other labor costs, as I had other equipment installed at the same time. In my dealings with EAM, they and I have always worked out a fixed price for the work, rather than time and material. They have always honored their pricing, even when it seems to me that they put in more time than either if us thought it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 I'll look that up next week when I get back to my office. It may be a bit difficult to break out from other labor costs, as I had other equipment installed at the same time. In my dealings with EAM, they and I have always worked out a fixed price for the work, rather than time and material. They have always honored their pricing, even when it seems to me that they put in more time than either if us thought it would. I'm more curious to find out how much I would be in for to switch the wiring from a 430 to a 650/750. 2K to upgrade seems not too too crazy, but if the install costs 4k, then that would put it firmly in the unattainable category for me. That Avidyne unit (if it ever ships) uses the same pinout as a 430/530- which could save a pretty penny, but I'd like to stick with garmin if able. Just thinking out loud for the future if my 430W fails or becomes orphaned.... Also thinking about taking the plunge earlier now, while the 430W's are holding their value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWinter Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Just an update on what I decided..After going back and forth with all the great ideas and taking a look at my budget this is what I decided. I ended up going with the GTN-650 w/ the GTX32 Remote Transponder and I will continue to use the 696 as well. I had a budget of just under 20K. I really would have liked the 750, but after flying this past weekend on a fairly (long for me) long flight, about 2.5 hours out and two back I decided I would really like an AP of some sort.  While the wing leveler is great, the constant adjustment of altitude gets old. So the budget was spent on the annual, GTN 650, GTX32 Remote transponder and a S-Tec 30 Altitude Hold.  That pretty much ate the budget. I tried to get the most bang for the buck.  Thanks again for all the input. She goes in shop Saturday.  TW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Just an update on what I decided..After going back and forth with all the great ideas and taking a look at my budget this is what I decided. I ended up going with the GTN-650 w/ the GTX32 Remote Transponder and I will continue to use the 696 as well. I had a budget of just under 20K. I really would have liked the 750, but after flying this past weekend on a fairly (long for me) long flight, about 2.5 hours out and two back I decided I would really like an AP of some sort.  While the wing leveler is great, the constant adjustment of altitude gets old. So the budget was spent on the annual, GTN 650, GTX32 Remote transponder and a S-Tec 30 Altitude Hold.  That pretty much ate the budget. I tried to get the most bang for the buck.  Thanks again for all the input. She goes in shop Saturday.  TW  Cool just remember the forum rules. No pictures, it NEVER happened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Just an update on what I decided..After going back and forth with all the great ideas and taking a look at my budget this is what I decided. I ended up going with the GTN-650 w/ the GTX32 Remote Transponder and I will continue to use the 696 as well. I had a budget of just under 20K. I really would have liked the 750, but after flying this past weekend on a fairly (long for me) long flight, about 2.5 hours out and two back I decided I would really like an AP of some sort.  While the wing leveler is great, the constant adjustment of altitude gets old. So the budget was spent on the annual, GTN 650, GTX32 Remote transponder and a S-Tec 30 Altitude Hold.  That pretty much ate the budget. I tried to get the most bang for the buck.  Thanks again for all the input. She goes in shop Saturday.  TW  20 grand? My hangar mate just spent 17K all in for a GTN-750. 14K for the box and 3K for install. How did the GTN-650 come out so high? I have a quote right here for 10K for the 650, 14K for the 750, and 3500$ each for install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWinter Posted June 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 20 grand? My hangar mate just spent 17K all in for a GTN-750. 14K for the box and 3K for install. How did the GTN-650 come out so high? I have a quote right here for 10K for the 650, 14K for the 750, and 3500$ each for install. The GTN-650 $9065 Installed S Tec ALT 30  $8345 " " GTX32  $2181  "  " Annual will be about $2000 +/-  $20K +/-  I'll get some credit on my trade-ins and might consider GDL.  When he first quoted all of this there was a Garmin $750 rebate going..Of course I waited too long. No rebates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Just an update on what I decided..After going back and forth with all the great ideas and taking a look at my budget this is what I decided. I ended up going with the GTN-650 w/ the GTX32 Remote Transponder and I will continue to use the 696 as well. I had a budget of just under 20K. I really would have liked the 750, but after flying this past weekend on a fairly (long for me) long flight, about 2.5 hours out and two back I decided I would really like an AP of some sort. While the wing leveler is great, the constant adjustment of altitude gets old. So the budget was spent on the annual, GTN 650, GTX32 Remote transponder and a S-Tec 30 Altitude Hold. That pretty much ate the budget. I tried to get the most bang for the buck. Thanks again for all the input. She goes in shop Saturday. TW Looks like you spread you money around well. Too bad you couldn't have gotten the GPSS steering as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWinter Posted June 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Looks like you spread you money around well. Too bad you couldn't have gotten the GPSS steering as well. Okay. You made me do some extra research on the GPSS. I found one more credit card that has some room left (just kidding), but did find a few more bucks in the budget. The order for the GPSS has been placed. Man, I better keep this bird for a very long time and pray I stay healthy and keep passing my physicals. Even more anxious now.  Lets hope the annual does not reveal and unknown ugly secrets. It's been flying good and the JPI 830 shows that it is looking pretty healthy. Keeping our fingers crossed for a clean bill of health. We will get the annual done first of course just to keep priorities in line. The next week will start the good stuff. Thanks for the idea of the GPSS. Like everyone has said...plan, plan, plan first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Okay. You made me do some extra research on the GPSS. I found one more credit card that has some room left (just kidding), but did find a few more bucks in the budget. The order for the GPSS has been placed. Man, I better keep this bird for a very long time and pray I stay healthy and keep passing my physicals. Even more anxious now.  Lets hope the annual does not reveal and unknown ugly secrets. It's been flying good and the JPI 830 shows that it is looking pretty healthy. Keeping our fingers crossed for a clean bill of health. We will get the annual done first of course just to keep priorities in line. The next week will start the good stuff. Thanks for the idea of the GPSS. Like everyone has said...plan, plan, plan first.  I'm glad I could help you spend ALL of your money. No sense in just a few us going broke on avionic upgrades -- the more the merrier. Welcome to the poor house, dog house or outhouse (if your significant other finds out)!  Seriously -- you are going to love the GPSS. Makes the AP unbelievable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Marauder> I couldn't have said it better myself! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2jetman Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 I just upgraded to a complete new Garmin panel which I absolutely love, I would have to say if you were only going to install one I would do the 750 hands down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Great panel. LIke your layout. Did you keep the AI as a vacuum unit, or is this an electric AI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWinter Posted June 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 I just upgraded to a complete new Garmin panel which I absolutely love, I would have to say if you were only going to install one I would do the 750 hands down. Your panel looks great and well thought out. I really wanted the 750 panel and for a few days that was the decision , but when weighing my needs (and checkbook) I had to make a few choices and wanted the most bang for the buck for the type of flying I do. On the brighter side as far as the 750 goes I can always add one later and slide the 650 down if I win the lottery.  By the time I've mastered the 650 I'm sure Garmin will have something new in the works. My goal was something pilot friendly, usable for my current skill level and also fit my mission. There are many guys on the forum with experience far, far beyond what I will ever learn and they use their planes with all the newest and latest and actually know how to use it all. The 650 will keep me busy as I'm sure it will take a steep learning curve for me to figure out. I'm still learning my 696  .  I just get up there for fun or a long weekend and relaxation after work. A different challenge than day to day business ops. I enjoy improving my piloting skills plus the flying gets me away from daily business routine and there is no telephone up there. I do hope to complete IFR at some point in my flying.   I'll keep buying the lottery tickets for the 750 and Aspen.. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2jetman Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Great panel. LIke your layout. Did you keep the AI as a vacuum unit, or is this an electric AI? I went electric with battery back up which allowed me to completely eliminate the entire vacuum system and pumps. Took 62lbs off the plane during the whole upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2jetman Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Here is the panel before the conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Here is the panel before the conversion. Jeepers jetman, can I have your junk?! Some guys would kill for what you upgraded FROM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2jetman Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Jeepers jetman, can I have your junk?! Some guys would kill for what you upgraded FROM! Lol! I'm doing my best to sell everything on eBay but the final selling fees are taking a huge chunk of it. I thought about listing some of the items here on Mooney Space but just haven't had the chance to do so yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Jeepers jetman, can I have your junk?! Some guys would kill for what you upgraded FROM! Lol! I'm doing my best to sell everything on eBay but the final selling fees are taking a huge chunk of it. I thought about listing some of the items here on Mooney Space but just haven't had the chance to do so yet. You should! I sold my GEM to a member. I know there is always an interest. What do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2jetman Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 You should! I sold my GEM to a member. I know there is always an interest. What do you have? Pretty much everything but the vacuum pumps, KLN90B GPS, ADF, Electric gyro, and the VSI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Did you not like the Garmin Audio panel? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWinter Posted June 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Need some quick help on my install..hope somebody is awake this morning. My upgrade is scheduled for next week the shop is ordering the parts etc..  He called this morning and asked me a few questions. He thought I had a Century A/P and was goiong to add the STec-30 ALT Hold and the GPSS. Now he is not sure he can do the GPSS without the the Century? I'm told him I had the auto wing leveler and that was all I had. He said well, they could do the ALT Hold, but not the GPSS. Not sure what I'm missing and I'm not that updated on how all of it works hand in hand. Especially w/ the GPSS. I told him I got the idea from the forum. He asked that I ask for some follow-up. I will also call Stec and get further info. The shop is very, very cabable. This is just not the add-on that they do everyday on a Mooney and since I have not dropped the plane off and they have not pulled panels to look at servos etc he asked if I would just touch base on the forum. The Alt Hold is no issue, just the GPSS add-on. I am going w/ the GTN750 instead of the 650. More on that later. Thanks in advance.  Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Need some quick help on my install..hope somebody is awake this morning. My upgrade is scheduled for next week the shop is ordering the parts etc.. He called this morning and asked me a few questions. He thought I had a Century A/P and was goiong to add the STec-30 ALT Hold and the GPSS. Now he is not sure he can do the GPSS without the the Century? I'm told him I had the auto wing leveler and that was all I had. He said well, they could do the ALT Hold, but not the GPSS. Not sure what I'm missing and I'm not that updated on how all of it works hand in hand. Especially w/ the GPSS. I told him I got the idea from the forum. He asked that I ask for some follow-up. I will also call Stec and get further info. The shop is very, very cabable. This is just not the add-on that they do everyday on a Mooney and since I have not dropped the plane off and they have not pulled panels to look at servos etc he asked if I would just touch base on the forum. The Alt Hold is no issue, just the GPSS add-on. I am going w/ the GTN750 instead of the 650. More on that later. Thanks in advance. Tom Tom -- what AP do you actually have? It sounds like they were adding only the STEC-30 altitude hold feature. They should have known what it was going to be connected to. Something doesn't sound right. If you want, I can give you a call and we can talk through what you have. PM with your number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Tom -- I looked over from the previous page what you described you were getting. I haven't checked AP installed prices in a while so I wasn't sure the $8k was the STEC-30 or the STEC-30 altitude hold. Based on what I found online, the price you were given is for the add-on altitude hold for an existing AP. If you have only a wing leveler, you will not have the capabilities with the AP do anything but altitude hold. My offer still stands. I will give you my telephone number in a PM if you need help sorting this out.  Here is the cost of the STEC 30 stuff from Gulf Coast: https://www.gulfcoastavionics.com/manufacturer/236-s-tec.aspx  This is not the installed price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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