Bill_Carter Posted May 17, 2013 Report Posted May 17, 2013 Has anyone used American Flyers (www.americanflyers.net) before? Specifically, their online training for the instrument written? Quote
rowen0409 Posted May 17, 2013 Report Posted May 17, 2013 I haven't used them for instrument written training but I do use them for my FIRC every two years. I think they're course material is presented well & kept up-to-date. I just completed another Instructor renewal & took my graduation certificate to FSDO for issuance of my renewed CFII earlier this week. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted May 17, 2013 Report Posted May 17, 2013 Although I took my instrument written at a nearby American Flyers office, I used the King online software for my preparation. I hung around the office after taking the test, just shooting the breeze with some of the instructors there and they really seemed to know their stuff. I will use them prior to taking my practical to get an evaluation on my performance and their assessment of whether I'm ready. Quote
smccray Posted May 17, 2013 Report Posted May 17, 2013 I did their weekend test prep- it was pretty good. Instructor did as good a job as possible to keep my attention for 2.5 days of ground school. I would assume that their online prep would be pretty good. If you ask them about training in your own plane- look around a bit before you go with them. They wanted $85 per hour to train in my airplane. They pay the CFI probably $10-$15 per hour and they want to charge me $85? I'm sure they're pretty good, but I found another instructor on the airport who left American Flyers for another flight school and he's pretty good. I'm paying him a more reasonable fee. Scott Quote
flyboy0681 Posted May 17, 2013 Report Posted May 17, 2013 They pay the CFI probably $10-$15 per hour and they want to charge me $85? I fully understand what you are saying, but that's no different than my accountant charging me $140 an hour for the use of an employee that he pays $40/hr. Or my gardener that charges me $150 a month for the services of the guy that he gets to mow my lawn for $10/hr. And don't get me started on why my dentist charges me $80 for a cleaning which is done by his hygienist, who earns, what, $12/hr? As for me, I'm a software developer and have my own clients but I also "farm" myself out to a firm that charges $150/hr for my time yet I don't get paid nearly that much. It's just the way the world works. Quote
Bill_Carter Posted May 17, 2013 Author Report Posted May 17, 2013 Thanks for the replies. The low price of $75 had me wondering about quality training. Quote
carusoam Posted May 18, 2013 Report Posted May 18, 2013 My IR training was done with AF. But it was more of a refresher for the test. I had done the written a decade before online when the government questions Gleim style became available on line... I only got one or two questions wrong. When I took the test the second time, I got two or three wrong. Get the written out of the way as soon as practical, then focus on the practical training. Repetition, repetition, repetition.... Pass the test, go get trained in all things practical... AF is worth it for the practical. The repetition can be done using any online method. AF's ground school prep is well organized and complete if you need the class room... That's my experience... Best regards, -a- Quote
RocketAviator Posted May 18, 2013 Report Posted May 18, 2013 i used King and then attended the weekend AF for me it was very well worth it, especially for the repitition, passed with a good score. I plan to use AF if I go after my commercial and CFII Quote
pirate Posted May 18, 2013 Report Posted May 18, 2013 I did the flyers 10 day Instument course Loooooong time ago. It was great ! Quote
Bill_Carter Posted May 18, 2013 Author Report Posted May 18, 2013 I guess the only reservation I would have is not having physical materials that I could refer to later on to freshen knowledge. Quote
Onetoothatatime Posted May 19, 2013 Report Posted May 19, 2013 Actually hygienists make between $25 to 40 per hour!!!!! Wish I could pay only 12 And don't get me started on why my dentist charges me $80 for a cleaning which is done by his hygienist, who earns, what, $12/hr? As for me, I'm a software developer and have my own clients but I also "farm" myself out to a firm that charges $150/hr for my time yet I don't get paid nearly that much. It's just the way the world works. Quote
Apollo Posted May 21, 2013 Report Posted May 21, 2013 Written? Do that through sheppard air and never look back. Quote
smccray Posted May 21, 2013 Report Posted May 21, 2013 I fully understand what you are saying, but that's no different than my accountant charging me $140 an hour for the use of an employee that he pays $40/hr. Or my gardener that charges me $150 a month for the services of the guy that he gets to mow my lawn for $10/hr. And don't get me started on why my dentist charges me $80 for a cleaning which is done by his hygienist, who earns, what, $12/hr? As for me, I'm a software developer and have my own clients but I also "farm" myself out to a firm that charges $150/hr for my time yet I don't get paid nearly that much. It's just the way the world works. Thanks for the lecture on how the world works. I bill my clients on an hourly basis as well. I'll expand on my earlier comment. Market in DFW for a professional flight school instruction is in the $50-60 per hour range. Somehow I doubt (read: I have direct knowledge) that American Flyers is paying their instructors significantly more than other local employed flight instructors, so it's not as if you're getting a higher quality, cream of the crop, instructor going to AF. With that in mind, what exactly does the incremental hourly fee for AF provide me as the customer? The company obviously has more overhead than their competitors as a national player, but their overhead isn't my problem. They probably provide a one stop solution similar to ATP that takes students from nothing to commercial multi including financing which certainly has value to some, but not to me. More power to them as they've clearly found a customer willing to pay them, but there's also a free market. A nominal amount of research into alternatives could provide a significant savings depending on an individual market. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Posted May 21, 2013 What an insult to all contributors here that shared the same thoughts, no need to get nasty. I was merely responding to a reply which pointed out that the provider of the labor doesn't get compensated the full amount of what is being charged for the service. I am only qualified to respond about my own experience, and that is, the firm that I offer my services to profits 100% from me. Their only expense in using me is the time their staff spends preparing and mailing an invoice to their client for my time and, of course, cutting me a check (I stand corrected, they profit 99.999% from me). I don't get my assignments from them and they don't manage me. They assume no responsibility and I carry my own professional insurance, which costs me thousands each year. Fantom, when was the last time you saw me bring my own food and stiff the wait staff? Quote
Freight Dog Posted May 21, 2013 Report Posted May 21, 2013 I'd only consider paying that much to a 'professional' CFI, i.e. not a time builder. Quote
fantom Posted May 21, 2013 Report Posted May 21, 2013 Fantom, when was the last time you saw me bring my own food and stiff the wait staff? Come to think of it, you do owe me a lunch or two . Lighten up, Mike. Quote
M016576 Posted May 22, 2013 Report Posted May 22, 2013 Has anyone used American Flyers (www.americanflyers.net) before? Specifically, their online training for the instrument written? I used them for my last CFI re-qual. Great service, good price. Quote
carusoam Posted May 22, 2013 Report Posted May 22, 2013 If it helps... The AF guys set up their IR training in a grad school sort of way. One well organized, three ringed, binder. Quizzes and tests. All related to the flying, all in the same order. Another three ring binder covers the "written" portion. The teachers for the classes have pretty interesting backgrounds. Not just young kids that can equally cover the material. Their equipment was well maintained, everything in the panel worked. VORs, ILS, and GPSs were modern for there time. They had simple C172s and RGs, all of the modern variety. Their (planes and instructors) availability was nearly everyday. If your preferred instructor was not available, another equally qualified instructor could fill in. Each flight's expectations was so well defined, the instructor recorded what you did, in a school like manner, the next instructor could pick up where you left off... It didn't feal like i was repeating much of anything beyond what was required to repeat or a lesson that wasn't completely successful. I felt like I paid more per hour, but the number of hours was in line with the expectation that was set in the beginning. This is my quirky engineering background coming out in my flight training world. As an engineer and family guy, I did not have gobs of extra time. AF was available after work. Many of my flights were in the dark in December. I re-learned how to deice a C172, and drain at least 10 sumps in the cold dark evenings. Today, I prefer flight training in my own aircraft with Mooney specific training...a couple of hours at a time. Training is good. Don't be afraid to sign up for some. This is my opinion, ymmv... Best regards, -a- Quote
Bill_Carter Posted May 22, 2013 Author Report Posted May 22, 2013 Thanks for the insights on this. Any thoughts on Sporty's kit for IFR? I was considering either AF or Sporty's. I used Gleim for my PPL and I liked it, but I like to have the video training too which Gleim doesn't have. I do like having the Gleim books that I can refer to any time I need them. Quote
carusoam Posted May 22, 2013 Report Posted May 22, 2013 Those cost money... This one may interest you from the "free" side in comparison to whichever you choose... Available from iTunes or app store.... Check out this great Podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/UniversityOfNorthDakotaAerocast. It is from the University of ND... Best regards, -a- Quote
flyboy0681 Posted May 22, 2013 Report Posted May 22, 2013 Come to think of it, you do owe me a lunch or two . Lighten up, Mike. I have a pretty tough skin, but remarks like that get the best of me. Lunch is forthcoming. 1 Quote
flyboy0681 Posted May 22, 2013 Report Posted May 22, 2013 Thanks for the insights on this. Any thoughts on Sporty's kit for IFR? I was considering either AF or Sporty's. I used Gleim for my PPL and I liked it, but I like to have the video training too which Gleim doesn't have. I do like having the Gleim books that I can refer to any time I need them. When I did my due diligence of which system to buy I read up as much as I could on Sporty's and King and King came out ahead. From what I recall, Sporty's is more about IFR flying and doesn't quite cut it in preparing for the written test. The King course is difficult to get through at times, not from the material point of view, but the "vintage" look at what is now antiquated equipment (first generation GPS) and access to the IFR system (ie, running to a phone booth to get your clearance prior to engine start and running back to make sure you make the void time). Martha's orange jump suits are also difficult to take at times but it's interesting to watch John's hairline recede during periodic updates to the material over the years. The King course, mixed with the Gleim Instrument Pilot Written book, served me well as I got only two questions wrong on the test. One was due to not paying attention to what I was clicking, and the other was a question on icing that was introduced last year when the written test was updated with new questions. Quote
Bill_Carter Posted May 22, 2013 Author Report Posted May 22, 2013 Those cost money... This one may interest you from the "free" side in comparison to whichever you choose... Available from iTunes or app store.... Check out this great Podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/UniversityOfNorthDakotaAerocast. It is from the University of ND... Best regards, -a- Wow, just watched the video on holding. Seems like they have some good stuff there. It will give me something to do and learn until I dig into my wallet and patronize one of the flight schools for paid training. Quote
Bill_Carter Posted May 22, 2013 Author Report Posted May 22, 2013 When I did my due diligence of which system to buy I read up as much as I could on Sporty's and King and King came out ahead. From what I recall, Sporty's is more about IFR flying and doesn't quite cut it in preparing for the written test. The King course is difficult to get through at times, not from the material point of view, but the "vintage" look at what is now antiquated equipment (first generation GPS) and access to the IFR system (ie, running to a phone booth to get your clearance prior to engine start and running back to make sure you make the void time). Martha's orange jump suits are also difficult to take at times but it's interesting to watch John's hairline recede during periodic updates to the material over the years. The King course, mixed with the Gleim Instrument Pilot Written book, served me well as I got only two questions wrong on the test. One was due to not paying attention to what I was clicking, and the other was a question on icing that was introduced last year when the written test was updated with new questions. I have seen a few of the King videos. They did seem pretty good, cheesy and fast paced perhaps, but sufficient. Quote
carusoam Posted May 23, 2013 Report Posted May 23, 2013 I noticed today, that AF also has some free materials on a website, but did not take the time to review them. They are advertised in the yellow pilot supplies newspaper??? The King stuff was really modern when the VHS was invented... best regards, -a- Quote
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