Movin on up

[triple8s]

Rocket vs Ovation vs Bravo? GPH/Cruise speed, Handling, landings(X-wind), Maintenance Costs, Pros/Cons of both. I missed a chance on a Rocket a little over a year ago and now I'm lookin at an "O" but a rocket can be had for a little less but what are the pro's/Con's of each. I'd prefer to make a final step up so as to only have to sell this to the wife one more time instead of every few years. If only I could get her to learn to fly !

[aviatoreb]

Holy Moly - what a price!

[RJBrown]

There is a real pretty Rocket for sale right now on eBay for 75K. Divorce sale. It is worth a look if you are in the market.

Jim

I would be in K.C. tommorow if I had the MSE sold. I miss my old Rocket.

[PMcClure]

I can't help you on the rocket, but here is a repeat post on my O2. 

 

 

I have had my Ovation for about 6 months. I haven't had it above 12,000' because I don't have much need on the east coast. Below is a link for good write up on the 280hp Ovation 2. (Just happens to be mine!!). This was before the 3 blade prop was added. 

 

http://www.mooneypil...uation/M20R.htm

 

The service ceiling on the Ovation is 20,000 ft. I can't give you a personal account on the performance at 20,000ft but have heard from several pilots that the Ovation performs well all the way up to the service ceiling.  As for climb, I am really impressed on the climb rate all the way up to 12,000. 

 

I stepped out of a Turbo Bonanza because i was tired of the excess maintenance and fuel to run the thing when I rarely run above 12,000 anyway. That was the 520UB motor which is not nearly as good as the 550G. 

 

The TBO on the 550 is 2,000 hours with an expected top half way. I don't know the TBO on the turbo models, but on the Bonanza it was only 1600 hours with cylinders every 400 hours. 

 

 

For what it is worth, the link I gave you is almost exactly the real world performance of N1051K (2002 Ovation 2) with the exception of climb and take off which is much improved with the 3 blade prop. I plan on $45/hour for engine replacement and major maintenance plus fuel for operating costs. At 16 gph at $5.50/gallon = $133/hour fuel and maintenance. At 180knots, its less than $0.75/nm. My Bonanza B36TC was $200 hour with fuel and maintenance with just a little less speed. I regularly see 187KTAS and 15-16gph. 

 

I don't mean to discourage you from a turbo model. I can see a reason to have one. But I think the Ovation is as good as it can get for a normally aspirated engine. The performance is at least as good as many Turbo models. 

[carusoam]

The expected top at half way on the Ovation???

Other than TNIO550... Does anyone have personal experience with the need to perform a top overhaul of their IO550 due to wear?

I am questioning the validity of the statement of expecting a TOH half-way.

PM, can you elaborate?

Best regards,

-a-

[PMcClure]

I expected some challenge. My statement is based on review of the market. Almost every ovation with more than 1000 hrs had a recent top. This is not personal experience but my comment was supported by two shops. I bought mine with 1100 hours and plan a top overhaul soon.

[M016576]

Buy a rocket- best all around mooney out there if cost is no factor IMO.

[carusoam]

What's your indication that you want/need one soon?

Will you be replacing cylinders or honing them out to over sized?

This is, by no means, an argument. I haven't looked at the market that closely, I guess.

Just wondering if other people had this experience or if it were rumored. The IO550 burns so little oil compared to my previous O360. The cylinders were not behaving badly at all at 1800 hrs...

I was just starting to enjoy the threads about operating past TBO.

Best regards,

-a-

[KSMooniac]

That KC Rocket has some significant repairs that bear close scrutiny.  Buyer beware.  It has been listed and sold or nearly sold several times on ebay over the last 6-12 months.  It might be a deal, but check it out thoroughly.  

[RJBrown]

I had 1000 hours on my Rocket when sold without any engine work. Irv Fehr got 2000 hour on the engine of 305PF without cylinder work. Just 3 gear ups. Run properly the Rocket should exceed TBO without a top.

[FlyDave]

Just a note of caution....This plane was sold to the current owner by Jerry Pressley on 1/23/12:

 

http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N1170U

 

I haven't done any additional research but I don't think this guy (Pressley - search mooneyspace for his name) has the best reputation.

[M016576]

Just a note of caution....This plane was sold to the current owner by Jerry Pressley on 1/23/12:

http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N1170U

I haven't done any additional research but I don't think this guy (Pressley - search mooneyspace for his name) has the best reputation.

Did I read that right??? That plane used to belong to Chuck Norris!!!!!!!

[bd32322]

Just a note of caution....This plane was sold to the current owner by Jerry Pressley on 1/23/12:

http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N1170U

I haven't done any additional research but I don't think this guy (Pressley - search mooneyspace for his name) has the best reputation.

I talked to the seller and walked away - pm me if you want to know why and are otherwise interested in buying

I do not think its for the faint of heart ..

[FlyDave]

Did I read that right??? That plane used to belong to Chuck Norris!!!!!!!

Yeah....I noticed that too...but I think he's more of a Cessna Citation kind of guy (and finances...you know..commercials with Christy Brinkley and all)...

[aviatoreb]

Did I read that right??? That plane used to belong to Chuck Norris!!!!!!!

 

I like to think I fly the same model airplane as Chuck Norris.

[PMcClure]

I expected some challenge. My statement is based on review of the market. Almost every ovation with more than 1000 hrs had a recent top. This is not personal experience but my comment was supported by two shops. I bought mine with 1100 hours and plan a top overhaul soon.

Some data for you - on Controller, there are 9 Ovations with over 1,000 hours. 2 past TBO with no comment about top overhauls. Of the other seven, 4 had top overhauls at about 1,000 hours, one has 1111 hours and the other 2 are 1300 and 1450 hours with no mention of top overhauls. This is the same type of data I saw 6 months ago when I bought my Ovation. I am still diagnosing symptoms in my bird. I don't think it is time yet, but one compression has been creeping down and the CHT spread is approaching 50 on one cylinder. This, along with more blow by than I would like make me think new cylinders are on the way. But oil consumption is still in spec as are other parameters. 

[PMcClure]

The Acclaim data is also interesting - 3 with more than 1000 hours. one at 1140 no mention of cylinder work. Another made it to 990 before cylinders were replaced and another to 1300 before a factory new engine. Of note, 2 examples of planes with 450 hours or less TT with tops at 350 hours. 

[aviatoreb]

Some data for you - on Controller, there are 9 Ovations with over 1,000 hours. 2 past TBO with no comment about top overhauls. Of the other seven, 4 had top overhauls at about 1,000 hours, one has 1111 hours and the other 2 are 1300 and 1450 hours with no mention of top overhauls. This is the same type of data I saw 6 months ago when I bought my Ovation. I am still diagnosing symptoms in my bird. I don't think it is time yet, but one compression has been creeping down and the CHT spread is approaching 50 on one cylinder. This, along with more blow by than I would like make me think new cylinders are on the way. But oil consumption is still in spec as are other parameters. 

 

I just replaced my cylinders 12 hours ago on my Mooney rocket...okay different airplane....but some continental information.  Time since factory zero time was 985.  The typical ~1000hrs.  I wrote a thread about it.  One thing I didn't say.  Looking at the valves from the inside...it is really unimpressive how the continental valves close and seal.  The ECI Titan Steel cylinders, which I then had reworked right out of the gate by Victor Avaition, I got to replace have a much much better fitting.  A lot of people say that continental cylinders just aren't that good - the APS guys who post over on beech talk say that some cylinders don't go the distance no matter how you operate the engine, just based on how they were built in the first place.  When I have my continental engine overhauled, I will put new cylinders and have them reworked straight away upon overhaul. I think that will give them a fighting chance of going the distance.

[bd32322]

The Acclaim data is also interesting - 3 with more than 1000 hours. one at 1140 no mention of cylinder work. Another made it to 990 before cylinders were replaced and another to 1300 before a factory new engine. Of note, 2 examples of planes with 450 hours or less TT with tops at 350 hours.

Also if people just replace/overhaul 1 failing cylinder, I dont think they are calling it a top overhaul ..

[jetdriven]

The whole "top overhaul" is a misnomer. There is no definition for the term. Usually it means changing all the cylinders.  I find it funny when sellers try to add value for it. 

[PMcClure]

I agree it is not scientific and I have no way of know what the sellers actually did. Most ads say STOH or since new cylinders. But it does agree with my own experience and feedback from shops. 

[aviatoreb]

 

[aviatoreb]

The whole "top overhaul" is a misnomer. There is no definition for the term. Usually it means changing all the cylinders.  I find it funny when sellers try to add value for it. 

 

Having just been through this - I think there is some value to it.  If these continentals so commonly need a top at 1000hrs, then if you are buying say a 1100 engine you would be guessing it might need a top - unless you know it just had one.