Rocket ride

[bd32322]

Any rocket owners in MA willing to give me a ride? I want to see what its like

I'll pay fuel.

Thanks

[aviatoreb]

I'm in upstate NY and I will give you a ride if you can get yourself someplace relatively close.  We can split the fuel.  It is a fine ride!

[N201MKTurbo]

A mechanic friend of mine asked me to ferry a rocket one day. I flew it from Stellar Air Park to Flagstaff. It took 40 min. to get there. The airline flight back to PHX (shorter distance) took 1 Hr 15 min.

 

To be fair, I flew up VFR direct except for the class B and it was pretty straight, and the airline went IFR and they flew him all over the place.

 

That plane climbed at almost 2000 FPM and at 12500 it was trueing at 200 KTS and I had a bunch of power left.

[bd32322]

I'm in upstate NY and I will give you a ride if you can get yourself someplace relatively close.  We can split the fuel.  It is a fine ride!

Thanks very much! My plane is currently going through an annual, I'll take you up on the offer once I get my plane back and fly to your location.

Thanks very much !

[aviatoreb]

Thanks very much! My plane is currently going through an annual, I'll take you up on the offer once I get my plane back and fly to your location.

Thanks very much !

 

My plane is going through annual too....  :-)

[bd32322]

A mechanic friend of mine asked me to ferry a rocket one day. I flew it from Stellar Air Park to Flagstaff. It took 40 min. to get there. The airline flight back to PHX (shorter distance) took 1 Hr 15 min.

 

To be fair, I flew up VFR direct except for the class B and it was pretty straight, and the airline went IFR and they flew him all over the place.

 

That plane climbed at almost 2000 FPM and at 12500 it was trueing at 200 KTS and I had a bunch of power left.

For those very reasons, my ultimate plane has become the mooney rocket. I eventually want to move into one. It helps that my wife thinks the J is slow considering the trips we take down to FL or New Orleans from Boston. She has never been in a Cessna

[aviatoreb]

A mechanic friend of mine asked me to ferry a rocket one day. I flew it from Stellar Air Park to Flagstaff. It took 40 min. to get there. The airline flight back to PHX (shorter distance) took 1 Hr 15 min.

 

To be fair, I flew up VFR direct except for the class B and it was pretty straight, and the airline went IFR and they flew him all over the place.

 

That plane climbed at almost 2000 FPM and at 12500 it was trueing at 200 KTS and I had a bunch of power left.

 

Its not that hard to beat the airlines actually.  About 4 years ago I rode co-pilot with a friend who had sold his old 172 to a guy in Florida.  That was one slow airplane with one rough paint job, no wheel pants and so forth.  Call it a 105TAS cruiser or maybe 110 if pointed downhill.  So from KPTD to KOPF was roughly 1200nm, which with a head wind took over 14hrs in the air over two days.  Well airlines back too....3 flights and lots of waiting at gates and 2 hours of driving or roughly and including the time from the hotel to the airport by taxi...14hours!

[rbridges]

Thanks very much! My plane is currently going through an annual, I'll take you up on the offer once I get my plane back and fly to your location.

Thanks very much !

 

that is the last thing I would want to do.   Why would I want to ride in something that would make me feel like my plane is sitting still?  

[aviatoreb]

that is the last thing I would want to do.   Why would I want to ride in something that would make me feel like my plane is sitting still?  

 

You could make yourself feel good by watching my shaden fuel flow meter.

 

Actually - to that point, bd32322, at 985hrs this annual called out the need to replace some cylinders so I am in throes of a top.  See my top thread: "Time for the cylinder farey to visit"

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8481-time-for-the-cylinder-farey-to-visit/

So while I should be up and flying late next week I bet I will be breaking in cylinders for the next month plus.  Meaning I will likely be running hotter and running even more fuel than usual, but running it hard like a bat out of hell.  Wohoo!

 

So I would say do you mind waiting until early late March or early April?

[bd32322]

You could make yourself feel good by watching my shaden fuel flow meter.

 

Actually - to that point, bd32322, at 985hrs this annual called out the need to replace some cylinders so I am in throes of a top.  See my top thread: "Time for the cylinder farey to visit"

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8481-time-for-the-cylinder-farey-to-visit/

So while I should be up and flying late next week I bet I will be breaking in cylinders for the next month plus.  Meaning I will likely be running hotter and running even more fuel than usual, but running it hard like a bat out of hell.  Wohoo!

 

So I would say do you mind waiting until early late March or early April?

Yeah i was following your cylinder troubles on that thread.

No issues waiting till April.

[bd32322]

that is the last thing I would want to do.   Why would I want to ride in something that would make me feel like my plane is sitting still?  

I got rocket fever !!

I wish there were an easy way to trade in my plane for a rocket on the market now. Instead I have to wait and sell in this down market and then buy the plane I really like.

Chalk it up to not understanding or not knowing my mission when I bought the first plane, not enough spare cash and also an irrational fear of turbos.

[aviatoreb]

I got rocket fever !!

 

That's what happened to me.  

 

Its a hot rod.  I love it!  Embrace the turbo!

[carusoam]

Morphine or turbo?

What's more addictive?

Once you get started, the addiction never stops.

Good luck.

-a-

[RJBrown]

Any single leg flight and most two leg flights can be completed faster in a Rocket than on the airlines. Door to door Denver's Centennial (KAPA) to Leesburg Florida is a trip we did multiple times in the Rocket. 6:30 in the air with a 45 min fuel stop. 20 min to get to APA, 20 min to preflight, 10 min to get airborne. 7:45 to land, tied down in 15 at in-laws in another 10. About 9 hours door to door. On the airlines same trip I hour to the airport 2 hours before take off 3:30 in the air 1 hour to get off the airport and another hour to get to Grandma's house. On a 1300+ mile trip the airlines save 30 minutes if you fly direct.

 I miss the Rocket. I am Addicted to the boost. MSE for sale or trade up to a Rocket. I thought I could go back but it hurts to much knowing what I am missing.

When you see 1500 FPM climb AT 26,000' and 200 knots any time you are above 12,000' and 240 at 24,000' you love the power. 

[M016576]

Any single leg flight and most two leg flights can be completed faster in a Rocket than on the airlines. Door to door Denver's Centennial (KAPA) to Leesburg Florida is a trip we did multiple times in the Rocket. 6:30 in the air with a 45 min fuel stop. 20 min to get to APA, 20 min to preflight, 10 min to get airborne. 7:45 to land, tied down in 15 at in-laws in another 10. About 9 hours door to door. On the airlines same trip I hour to the airport 2 hours before take off 3:30 in the air 1 hour to get off the airport and another hour to get to Grandma's house. On a 1300+ mile trip the airlines save 30 minutes if you fly direct.

I miss the Rocket. I am Addicted to the boost. MSE for sale or trade up to a Rocket. I thought I could go back but it hurts to much knowing what I am missing.

When you see 1500 FPM climb AT 26,000' and 200 knots any time you are above 12,000' and 240 at 24,000' you love the power.

You seem pretty bent on getting a rocket: here's one on ASO that isn't much more than your J. I bet they might even entertain a trade...

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=142902&utm_source=Fwd2Friend

I recommend you never fly a Turbine. If you think a Turbo is nice and can't stop thinking about it, then you'll never look at flying in the same light from the comfortable, pressurized cockpit of a PC-12 or TBM (and have ALL your friends in the back with you!). Oh... To have 15 million dollars ;-)!

[fantom]

Morphine or turbo?

What's more addictive?

Once you get started, the addiction never stops.

Good luck.

-a-

 

The Rocket is much cheaper than drugs, unless you live in CA or one of the other states now permitting legal drugs for hang nails

 

Mega ditto on the Turbine PC-12 and TBM, although illegal drugs might be less expensive. Peeing into a urinal and not wearing a mask are other +'s.

[RJBrown]

If the lotto numbers come up I would be struggling between a PC12 or a TBM 850. That and a L-39.  Short of that the Rocket is the biggest bang for the buck.

[aviatoreb]

If the lotto numbers come up I would be struggling between a PC12 or a TBM 850. That and a L-39.  Short of that the Rocket is the biggest bang for the buck.

 

My dream hangar has a Rocket, a Cub on floats or skis depending on the season, a TBM850 and a L39 in that order.  My hangar has only one airplane in it and I am lucky for it so I am only one deep on the dream list, but living the dream.

 

M016576 - I have never been in a turbine and a good thing too!  Since I still think Mooney is the best airplane in the world.  By the way, does anyone know why a turbine engine costs 10 times as much for an engine that produces twice the horsepower - say a PT6 at 600hp?  Or said otherwise, why aren't there turbine engines that are not twice as powerful - why isnt there a turbine engine producing 300hp and cost roughly the same as a TSIO520?  I mean there are fewer moving parts after all.  Excuse my complete ignorance on all things turbine.

[bd32322]

My dream hangar has a Rocket, a Cub on floats or skis depending on the season, a TBM850 and a L39 in that order.  My hangar has only one airplane in it and I am lucky for it so I am only one deep on the dream list, but living the dream.

 

M016576 - I have never been in a turbine and a good thing too!  Since I still think Mooney is the best airplane in the world.  By the way, does anyone know why a turbine engine costs 10 times as much for an engine that produces twice the horsepower - say a PT6 at 600hp?  Or said otherwise, why aren't there turbine engines that are not twice as powerful - why isnt there a turbine engine producing 300hp and cost roughly the same as a TSIO520?  I mean there are fewer moving parts after all.  Excuse my complete ignorance on all things turbine.

I know that turbines have to endure very high temperatures and rotational velocities. Tolerances on weight and fitment are also super tight because of the rotational speeds involved. Special alloys (read expensive) are used to withstand the forces involved. All these add up.

Ever sit in the back of a DC9 or MD80 ? The engine is right there next to the window and you can see it spin and hear everything. You can see how tightly the fan blades are packed against its cowl and how a slight imbalance in the blades could mean trouble. I love the rear seat in that aircraft .. Most people hate that seat

There are micro-turbines that produce low power, e.g., the engine in the BD5 jet experimental - also seen in james bond in octopussy i believe. I am not sure but i think they consume more gas than internal combustion engines at our power outputs. Micro-turbines are starting to get more popular in energy generation fields. Hopefully economies of scale bring the costs of those turbines down and maybe some company will then branch out into aviation turbines.

[Hank]

Turbine and compressor blades are very high technology, and not inexpensive to manufacture. The smaller the engine, the faster it must turn. Try balancing that rotating mass spinning at 30-40,000 RPM. There are also reasons why the hot section rebuilds are expensive.

 

Air must be compressed going in, then burned and pushed out the back. As it goes by, it spins a turbine whose job is to create enough power to run the compressor and all installed devices [generators, alternators, hydraulics, fuel pumps, gear, electrical buses, etc.]. What is left is pushed out the back to create thrust.

 

Compressor sections are typically much larger than the turbine sections. Between each row of quickly-spinning compressor & turbine blades is another set of blades mounted from the outside that don't move, whose job is to redirect the airflow to hit the next row of spinning blades just right . . .

 

Lots of fancy math that this keyboard won't write here even if I could remember it; exotic materials, advanced manufacturing methods for the blades and stators; and the fun aviation killer, low production volumes to distribute the cost across.

 

There are several companies that make small RC turbine engines, typically in the 30-65 lb. thrust category. They exhaust their on-board fuel load [often 2-3 gallons of kerosene] in 10-15 minutes of flight. For example, 50 lb. thrust uses 8 gph; 500 lb. thrust will use 80 gph looks like a good answer, but the math doesn't work that way and neither does my checkbook. That's why I fly a Mooney, safe, fast and efficient. Not always cheap, but certainly efficient.

[carusoam]

Thanks Hank,

I feal better now. I will stay with reciprocating engines for now.

Nice explanation on the jet works.

Best regards,

-a-

[bd32322]

Compared to a jet engine, a rotary / wankel engine is interesting for low power applications like our airplanes. I would love to see such engines in airplanes. There is a company that makes certified wankel rotaries I believe. .. mostly the experimental market uses them probably.

Much fewer moving parts, there is only rotary motion and no reciprocating motion, so its smooth and fewer things to fail (no valves, rocker arms, camshaft nothing)

On the flp side it drinks marginally more gas but it has a much higher power to weight output than reciprocating engines

[carusoam]

And oil....

[aviatoreb]

Compared to a jet engine, a rotary / wankel engine is interesting for low power applications like our airplanes. I would love to see such engines in airplanes. There is a company that makes certified wankel rotaries I believe. .. mostly the experimental market uses them probably.

Much fewer moving parts, there is only rotary motion and no reciprocating motion, so its smooth and fewer things to fail (no valves, rocker arms, camshaft nothing)

On the flp side it drinks marginally more gas but it has a much higher power to weight output than reciprocating engines

 

My inexpert outside thought is if they can make an experimental BD5 jet engine then a smaller turboprop engine could exist too.  I believe the cost is due to the usual FAA certification uphill plus normal economy of scales - how much would an iphone cost if they only sold 1000 units.

 

I had a Mazda Rx7 many years ago.  A wankel rotary seems like a good idea.  Its already doing circles too and very few moving parts.  I hear you can get one on your vans.

[Hank]

Thanks Hank,

I feal better now. I will stay with reciprocating engines for now.

Nice explanation on the jet works.

Best regards,

-a-

 

Having blown the Navy flight physical for less than perfect eyesight, I figured I could make airplanes fly. But the late 80's when I got out of school was a spectacularly bad time to be looking for employment in the U.S. aerospace industry. So I fell into injection  molding, and ending up moving into medical device manufacturing. Then discovered I could fly without being a military pilot, and it's all been great since then.

 

I'm still a frustrated  airplane maker, but not frustrated enough to go the Experimental route. Too much time not flying, and too many opportunities for little mistakes that could kill me.