252 Overhaul Cost Estimates

[Buster1]

Yep I'm looking at that 252 in FL for $125K with an engine at TBO.  I haven't had a chance to "get serious" yet and call around to some OH places and see what it might cost for a TSIO 360 MB OH. 

Does anyone here have a rough idea on what could be expected?  VRef on that bird was $115K.

Thanks.

[FlyingAggie]

Vref cites engine costs.  For a 1987 252, Vref list:

Power / TBO

CONT 210HP TBO 1800

Engine Model

TSIO-360-GB/LB1/MB

Fac. Remanufactured

$50,741.00

Overhaul

$39,000.00

There is another popular web site that list cost for new, fac reman and OH engines for both TCM and Lycoming.  I am currently at FL390 on Delta and using my wife's computer and don't have the url, but maybe someone else will post it.  I have seen KSMoonaic reference it before.

Alan

Quote: Buster1

Yep I'm looking at that 252 in FL for $125K with an engine at TBO.  I haven't had a chance to "get serious" yet and call around to some OH places and see what it might cost for a TSIO 360 MB OH. 

Does anyone here have a rough idea on what could be expected?  VRef on that bird was $115K.

Thanks.

[Parker_Woodruff]

From factoryengines.com

Best thing about this is you can exhange and by the time the new engine is in your shop you can send the old one straight out.  Your downtime could be as little as a week depending on the shop.

List Price: $61,165
Core Value: $15,700
Exchange List Price: $45,465
Discount Amount: $1,500
Factory Invoice: $43,965

Over Invoice: $300

You Pay: $44,265Payment: $555

[RJBrown]

Parker quoted from the Air Power site. That price is sitting on the floor in a box. This is their list of included components.

Alternator: (2 ALTS.) REAR MOUNTED 12 VOLT & 80 AMPS.
Controller: AIRESEARCH
Exhaust System: YES
Harness: TCM 5 MM SHIELDED (.750-20 THD. CONNECTION)
Horsepower: 210
Magneto: TCM S6LSC-25P (PRESSURIZED) IMPULSE COUPLING
Oil Cooler: CORE 9.72 INCHES LONG
Oil Filter: INTEGRAL WITH OIL PUMP
Overboost Valve: AIRESEARCH
Sparkplug: 18MM X .750-20 THD. CONN. FAA APPROVED
Starter: 12 VOLTS
Tachometer Drive: TACHOMETER DRIVE COVER
Turbocharger: AIRESEARCH MODEL TA04
Voltage: 12
Wastegate: AIRESEARCH
Aircraft Application: Mooney 252

The labor and other needed parts will run the final price higher.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: RJBrown

Parker quoted from the Air Power site. That price is sitting on the floor in a box. This is their list of included components.

Alternator: (2 ALTS.) REAR MOUNTED 12 VOLT & 80 AMPS.

Controller: AIRESEARCH

Exhaust System: YES

Harness: TCM 5 MM SHIELDED (.750-20 THD. CONNECTION)

Horsepower: 210

Magneto: TCM S6LSC-25P (PRESSURIZED) IMPULSE COUPLING

Oil Cooler: CORE 9.72 INCHES LONG

Oil Filter: INTEGRAL WITH OIL PUMP

Overboost Valve: AIRESEARCH

Sparkplug: 18MM X .750-20 THD. CONN. FAA APPROVED

Starter: 12 VOLTS

Tachometer Drive: TACHOMETER DRIVE COVER

Turbocharger: AIRESEARCH MODEL TA04

Voltage: 12

Wastegate: AIRESEARCH

Aircraft Application: Mooney 252

The labor and other needed parts will run the final price higher.

[N9937c]

WHAT KIND OF PLANE DO YOU GET WITH THAT?    Is this a reman?

THAT IS UNBELIEVABLE!

[FlyingAggie]

Buster,

This one would be a much better value for a 134K and with only 125 hrs SMOH.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/specs?clsfdnum=841369

The seller is on the  Mooney Email List and mentioned the plane does have some fuel tanks leaks, but so does the one that I am in prebuy at LASAR this week.

Alan

[RJBrown]

When I ran VREF on this one I came up about the same. This bird has been for sale and overpriced for a long time. Current market is below VREF and a run-out would be even further below market. It would take over $100,000 to bring this one up to current. Needs: engine, paint, interior and more. If you spent another 100 and then tried to sell it it would not bring 180. The phrase that caught my eye was "Plumbed for O2". All these came with O2 is the bottle missing? What other deferred maintenance is there? I agree with Alan there has to be better value out there.

[Buster1]

Aggie, thanks, I saw that one too.  Couldn't find any damage history in the reports, but one webpage had a note about some damage repaired long ago.  Seems a little low on total cost for a brand new engine.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I'll be avoiding the one in FL with the runout engine. Thx!

[ernie252]

Quote: Buster1

  "...Seems a little low on total cost for a brand new engine."

[ernie252]

BTW, send me a PM with an e-mail address and I will send you the invoices for the O'haul and the R & R (Nov 2007)

[RJBrown]

This may sound brutal but I believe it to be honest.

"I have rejected offers of 120 and 123 which may have been the only real offers I've had, who knows. "

In today's market rejecting OVER VREF offers is not being a reasonable seller.

" Within reason, I am trying to find the price at which it sells, not the price that makes me feel good."

You found where the market is and wont sell. There are a lot like you out there.

They want what it brought 2-3 years ago. The market is the market and you rejected not one but 2 REASONABLE offers. Save yourself the cost of an ad and all the serious buyers time and just park it until the market rebounds or your ego dissapates.

[FlyingAggie]

Buster,

I think Ed's 252 is a great value, especially considering his price reduction to $125K and having the tanks and donuts fixed.  I would be going after it had I not just not bought the 262.

Alan

Quote: Buster1

Aggie, thanks, I saw that one too.  Couldn't find any damage history in the reports, but one webpage had a note about some damage repaired long ago.  Seems a little low on total cost for a brand new engine.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I'll be avoiding the one in FL with the runout engine. Thx!

[ernie252]

Quote: RJBrown

In today's market rejecting OVER VREF offers is not being a reasonable seller.

[ernie252]

Quote: ernie252

[Buster1]

Ernie and All,

I personally think you have sweet looking plane with some great components.  A few weeks ago I added it to my "Mooneys to buy" tracker spreadsheet that compares prices, options Vrefs, etc.  Your plane made my cut, and not many do.  You also have a PM from me concerning damage history on 252za.  If it does have any former damage, that might be throwing off some numbers a little, as Vref assumes NDH.  Don't know about the other "blue book" websites/references.

I'm almost ready to buy my Mooney.  If yours is still around in 2-4 months, you might be hearing a lot more from me.  I think you have it priced very competatively.

[ernie252]

Thanks. I sent you an e-mail with more info.  It was landed off airport and damaged in 1994 and repaired at the factory. 

[RJBrown]

Seven years ago I sold a 1980 M-20K with the rocket conversion. 2000TT, 700SFOH. Long range tanks. Speed brakes, EDM700, a stock panel with a KNS80 and a old Loran. It had new paint and interior and sold for $175000. Today that same plane will be down to $135 or so if it has a 430 in place of the KNS80. While looking to replace it last year the planes that were selling were 10-15 below Vref. Today's market is down a lot. Something about your airplane must make it stand out from the rest to even get sold. Original paint and interior and a runout engine do make it stand out. Now that you are asking 125 I bet you are kicking yourself for not taking the 123 you turned down.  There are two patterns of sellers out there: First are those living in the past that are drug screaming and yelling into the present. It takes over a year of not selling but they either come down and sell or decide to keep it. The other type are those that are aware of how bad the market is and market at the right price. These birds sell fairly quick.

Before I bought my current bird I had a contract on a TLS. All the seller had to do was honor the contract and I would own it now. Problem was it failed the prebuy miserably and I insisted that it be made airworthy. The seller got pissy and backed out. He then HAD to get it airworthy any way. The last price I saw on it was less than a break even on the deal he killed. There is a market, planes do sell. It is just a lot less than a lot think.

[KSMooniac]

I think Ernie's plane looks like a heckuva deal on a nicely equipped 252 with great times.  There is a buyer out there, and sometimes it just takes time.  It seems to me that it is priced close to a J model of that vintage, which is hard to believe! 

[Cruiser]

Every airplane is worth EXACTLY what the buyer and the seller agree it is worth. Nothing more or nothing less. All the rest of us can comment on what kind of a deal THEY made.