Sad Tale of a IO-360 A3B6D. Be careful folks!

[DaV8or]

Related to the oil leak thread. Also a good reminder why to get that 406 ELT up and working. This guy wasn't found for two days.

M20J crash

Technical details

Photos and diagrams

IMO, this engine design is the worst thing Lycoming ever thought of.

[AndyFromCB]

Pictures like that is what seriously makes me consider getting a twin and running 500lb under gross all the time. Or, don't kill me, a Cirrus. Older I get, the less I trust in my skill and luck combination needed for a survivable forced landing anywhere but Iowa which essentially is one giant airport, with mile long runway, thank to rectangular survey system.

Been eyeing a 414A with a lot of lust.

[scottfromiowa]

I don't think it would have mattered...two days or two seconds for response. Sorry to hear/see this. Maintenance and upkeep on these mags critical. I am having my mags 500 hour completed with annual in January.

[FloridaMan]

Did you see the photos? From the air, I bet that looked fine, but what an unpleasant place to have to set down an airplane. It looks like another planet.

[DaV8or]

Pictures like that is what seriously makes me consider getting a twin and running 500lb under gross all the time. Or, don't kill me, a Cirrus. Older I get, the less I trust in my skill and luck combination needed for a survivable forced landing anywhere but Iowa which essentially is one giant airport, with mile long runway, thank to rectangular survey system.

Been eyeing a 414A with a lot of lust.

The Cirrus I understand. However, there are lots of reports of like this one with dead people in it involving twins. Whole other set of problems. Twice the expence and you still aren't statistically any safer. A problem with twins is when they do hit the ground, it is many times more likely to be fatal.

[DaV8or]

I don't think it would have mattered...two days or two seconds for response. Sorry to hear/see this. Maintenance and upkeep on these mags critical. I am having my mags 500 hour completed with annual in January.

In this case no, but I was thinking in the event that it turned out he did survive but had no one show up for two days how bad that could be. Particularly with injuries.

[DaV8or]

Did the pilot die in the crash or succumb to the elements after two days' exposure?

He died in the crash. I just pointed out the ELT thing because what if...

[AndyFromCB]

Did the pilot die in the crash or succumb to the elements after two days' exposure? I couldn't find a cause of death. Hard to image that that landing, in daylight conditions, wouldn't be survivable. Gear up preferred but even gear down. Very strange and interesting. Thanks for posting it, Dave.

I don't lose sleep over the D3000. All of the experts say that it is very reliable if properly maintained. There is now no excuse for not installing the new and improved hold down blocks, using new star washers, and properly torquing the bolts. This vulnerability has been known for several years now.

Jim

If anyone ever wanted to design an airplane grater, I don't think they could improve on this specific formation. It pays to be both lucky and good, but I'll take lucky any day over good. This exactly the kind of situation where being in a Cirrus with CAPS would have made it a non-event.

[AndyFromCB]

The Cirrus I understand. However, there are lots of reports of like this one with dead people in it involving twins. Whole other set of problems. Twice the expence and you still aren't statistically any safer. A problem with twins is when they do hit the ground, it is many times more likely to be fatal.

I agree to a point. You don't want to hit the ground in a twin with a 80knot stall, that's fore sure. You're considerably more likely to be dead than in a single with 61knot stall or less. Hence my comment about flying a 414A 500lb under gross. You then actually have a fighting chance of climbing on single engine with a decent gradient because at gross they are all pigs until you move on up to Blackhawk King Air 90 where you can still get 600fpm at gross on one engine. But a 414A, 500lb undergross still gives you honest 400fpm on a single motor. At gross, it's sad. Plus with a single engine ceiling of about 20K, an engine loss in flight is a non-event.

I don't do night flights or ceilings less than 700 on cross countries in my Mooney. I'll do local practice at night and 200 foot ceilings at my airport but that's because I know the terrain and have my turns preplanned in event of power loss.

[AndyFromCB]

Perhaps you are right. 185 feet to dissipate landing forces, though, I would have thought would have been enough. Perhaps he didn't have or wasn't wearing shoulder harnesses? My '78 model has them, but they were installed several years after the plane was manufactured, so I know that all '78s are not so equipped. I still would have thought that that landing would have been survivable. Obviously not, in this case, though. It is a shame.

Looks to me like he rolled over at least once, I cannot imagine the kind of G force on one's head slamming around the cabin and hitting the roof and side windows. Will make me think twice about any sort of cross wind correction in an event of forced landing. Wings level, gear up. Like I said, better lucky than good. RIP. Everyone's luck runs out some day. A lot of there crashes are survivable for younger folks but as we get older, our arteries harden and they simply snap from G force. All and all, not planing on quitting flying quite yet, having have witness multiple people die of cancer, I'll take plowing the ground with my propeller any day over that. Still hoping for a heart attack at 85 in the arms of some younger lady and maybe her friend ;-)

BTW, I keep a smoke hood and two motorcycle helmets in my back seat. If I'm going down and there is time, a helmet goes on. I've wrecked more bikes than I care to remember and there is no better feeling while still sliding down the racetrack at 80mph than your head bouncing up and down the pavement and you're just smiling because of an inch of foam between you and the pavement.

[AndyFromCB]

Just found out a friend's sister starting feeling ill last Friday, got diagnosed with acute leukemia on Tuesday, died this morning, 29, the sweetest person ever. As they say, only the good die young as I'm sitting here enjoying a cuba libre in my office at 1PM in the afternoon aka being bad. I don't know why but that photo really hits home like no other airplane wreck I've ever seen.

[KSMooniac]

Tough to say whether this accident could/should have been survivable. Obviously landing gear-up at absolute minimum speed would be crucial, as well as the use of shoulder harnesses. I lost a flying club colleague while I was in college in a Mooney crash and the lack of a shoulder harness likely contributed to his fatal head trauma. Fortunately his wife and two sons survived. The Mooney steel cage does a remarkable job of protecting the occupants and dissipating energy during a crash. The salvage J I just purchased had some major trauma that ripped the engine off of the firewall and smashed both wingtips severely, yet the two occupants got out with only 1 broken leg as far as I understand it. The guy that was first on the scene was surprised they were alive, much less able to exit the airplane on their own!

Every time the cowl is off, we need to check the security of the siamese mag. Every time!

If/when I ever get around to making my own cowl system, I'm going to add big access doors on each side so that more can be inspected and especially that mag!

[scottfromiowa]

The cause of death was listed as multiple traumatic injuries

That was taken from medical path data...

I am going to choose to believe that death was quick based on "cause of death" discussion of sudden twisting forces from wing low and the wreckage.

My flights north take me into heavily wooded areas...I have already chosen lakes if no open area presents. I would take TREES 100 times over compared to that jagged rocky mess. I wouldn't even want to parachute into that.

[jetdriven]

That looks like a high speed crash, it must have been over 100 knots. Further, it also appears N50BJ was indeed equipped with shoulder harnesses. I just think the energy in the crash was too high.

There is a big discussion about gear-up vs. gear-down in forced landings. In this case, selecting gear-down would allow the landing gear to absorb more impact energy. It also can trip the aircraft into a roll or pitchpole but it appears to have done that anyways.

Check that magneto carefully, it can kill you faster than anything. Bendix Falls is more common that we think.

[flyboy0681]

Every time the cowl is off, we need to check the security of the siamese mag.

The one thing I really miss and wish I had on the Mooney is cowl access. When I rented Piper's it was so easy to check everything out by simply twisting the tabs and lifting the sheet metal.

[rbridges]

I don't think it would have mattered...two days or two seconds for response. Sorry to hear/see this. Maintenance and upkeep on these mags critical. I am having my mags 500 hour completed with annual in January.

okay, talk to me in easy to understand words. You have two mags. Wouldn't you still have one to work with if the other failed? Doesn't the mag check at the preflight catch a failing mag? What are the odds that both give out in the same flight?

[robert7467]

How Dangerous are these things? I made my first XC into Dallas, and I was thinking about bringing my full faced MX helmet with me. Dirt helmets are very light, I am starting to think about keeping one in the plane, and possibly for each passenger. Maybe not a bad idea.

[KSMooniac]

okay, talk to me in easy to understand words. You have two mags. Wouldn't you still have one to work with if the other failed? Doesn't the mag check at the preflight catch a failing mag? What are the odds that both give out in the same flight?

The J (and C177RG, and some others) had an IO-360 variant that has both mags in a single housing, driven by a single gear and shaft. If the mounting security or the drive gear/shaft is compromised, then both mags quit working properly. Not the best design choice for redundancy, hence the very important need to adhere to 500 hr service intervals and to check mounting security at every opportunity.

[FloridaMan]

^ What he said. Those siamese mags have killed a lot of people. It's usually the plastic gear not being properly inspected and serviced as it should be.

[sreid]

How Dangerous are these things? I made my first XC into Dallas, and I was thinking about bringing my full faced MX helmet with me. Dirt helmets are very light, I am starting to think about keeping one in the plane, and possibly for each passenger. Maybe not a bad idea.

I would also wrap yourself in bubble wrap (non-flammable TSO'd kind).

[AndyFromCB]

I would also wrap yourself in bubble wrap (non-flammable TSO'd kind).

Keep on laughing, but a smoke hood and helmet go a long way to dealing with two most common M20M emergencies. 3 M20M have gone done because of smoke in the cockpit and countless others would be alive if they had a helmet on both motorcycles or in the airplane. I was wearing a helmet when my Super D went down into the river, as I always do when I fly upside down, and trust me, my face, not already pretty to begin with would be in a lot worst of a shape if I wasn't. I credit wearing a helmet with staying conscious and not drowning in 12 inches of water when the plane flipped on touchdown.

[rbridges]

The J (and C177RG, and some others) had an IO-360 variant that has both mags in a single housing, driven by a single gear and shaft. If the mounting security or the drive gear/shaft is compromised, then both mags quit working properly. Not the best design choice for redundancy, hence the very important need to adhere to 500 hr service intervals and to check mounting security at every opportunity.

thanks, scott.

[Marauder]

Did you see the photos? From the air, I bet that looked fine, but what an unpleasant place to have to set down an airplane. It looks like another planet.

would be like landing on sandpaper, only large scale.

[Marauder]

Still hoping for a heart attack at 85 in the arms of some younger lady and maybe her friend ;-)

.

You and me both! Just don't tell my wife!

[flyboy0681]

Still hoping for a heart attack at 85 in the arms of some younger lady and maybe her friend ;-)

I've always said that I wanted to die at 90 by the hands of a jealous husband.