AndyFromCB Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 Quote: bd32322 I'll throw a monkey wrench in all this ... So what happens if you come in to land full flaps and do a go-around and refuse to change the flap setting when slow and low to the ground and only retract flaps to takeoff setting once you are accelerating and have gained some height from the ground. The aircraft must have been certified with full flaps on a go-around. After all a landing is nothing but a preparation for a go-around. Seriously, I will be very concerned and surprised if Mooney did not test full-flaps takeoffs, touch and goes and go-arounds from the air. I understand when someone will cry out - "well its not the same - he is knowingly taking off with full flaps whereas the other event was a go-around in a possibly emergency and quick reaction-required scenario" - but does the airplane care? Quote
bd32322 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 Quote: astelmaszek If you're doing it in a fully loaded Cessna 172 or a Piper Cherokee 140 you will never get to " once you are accelerating and have gained some height from the ground." Quote
AndyFromCB Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 Quote: bd32322 If you're doing it in a fully loaded Cessna 172 or a Piper Cherokee 140 you will never get to " once you are accelerating and have gained some height from the ground." Quote
jetdriven Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 Quote: bd32322 I'll throw a monkey wrench in all this ... So what happens if you come in to land full flaps and do a go-around and refuse to change the flap setting when slow and low to the ground and only retract flaps to takeoff setting once you are accelerating and have gained some height from the ground. The aircraft must have been certified with full flaps on a go-around. After all a landing is nothing but a preparation for a go-around. Seriously, I will be very concerned and surprised if Mooney did not test full-flaps takeoffs, touch and goes and go-arounds from the air. I understand when someone will cry out - "well its not the same - he is knowingly taking off with full flaps whereas the other event was a go-around in a possibly emergency and quick reaction-required scenario" - but does the airplane care? Quote
bd32322 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 Quote: jetdriven Several people in 150s have been killed when they attempt a go-around with flaps at 40 degrees. The aircraft will not climb. There is no certification requirment to climb with full flaps. Quote
jetdriven Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 There is not, just like there is no certification requirement for a twin engine plane to maintain flight after losing one engine. Quote
bd32322 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 I looked at a C172 POH and for the go around it does mention going to flaps 20 immediately after full power is applied, However, nothing in the limitations section at all about what might happen if you try to go around at full flaps. Amazing - the things that are left out from the POH. The Mooney POH on the contrary says retract flaps to takeoff position after climb established - feels good to be in a Mooney Quote
AndyFromCB Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 Quote: jetdriven There is not, just like there is no certification requirement for a twin engine plane to maintain flight after losing one engine. Quote
N33GG Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 The later Cessnas had full flaps available reduced due to the problems with early model full flap performance. You can sure tell the difference. I know of many aircraft that may not perform with full flaps, and have instructed accordingly. Nothing beats telling a student to go around and they wonder why the aircraft keeps going down with full power applied. Gets their attention and makes a lasting impression! Quote
WardHolbrook Posted July 27, 2012 Report Posted July 27, 2012 There is no argument that a Mooney will fly just fine with full flaps. Takekoff, cruise and land. Albeit the performance will suffer greatly. That's not the question. What is in question is the legality and consequencial liabilty exposure of knowingly and intentionally flying an airplane with the flaps inoperative and extended. There is no question that it can be done either, it's just that, to be done legally and with insurance coverage, it must be done with a ferry permit. The ferry permit will list the detailed stipulations and requirements to conduct the flight. (ie flaps manually retracted.) It would be foolish to attempt it any other way. But that never stops some folks. Quote
jetdriven Posted July 28, 2012 Report Posted July 28, 2012 Quote: astelmaszek Byron, That is not exactly a correct statement. It is correct if the twin stalls under 61knots. Over 61knots and there is a requirement for full gross altitude level flight at 6000feet on the critical engine. Andy Quote
WardHolbrook Posted July 28, 2012 Report Posted July 28, 2012 Quote: jetdriven Byron, That is not exactly a correct statement. It is correct if the twin stalls under 61knots. Over 61knots and there is a requirement for full gross altitude level flight at 6000feet on the critical engine. Andy Quote
stevesm20b Posted July 29, 2012 Report Posted July 29, 2012 In my M20B the POH recomends full flaps for short field take offs. But the "B" model only has a maxium of 20 degrees of flaps. Quote
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