Remove Before Flight Poll

[PT20J]

21 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said:

In the "how have you improved your process" category, the last thing I do before climbing into the airplane is go stand 20-30 feet off the nose and give everything a last big picture look. I caught a low tire once that had looked fine in the hangar so it catches more than the obvious stuff with flags and such.

Great idea. I also do that post flight. I've caught the strobes still flashing because I somehow left the master switch on more than once.

[redbaron1982]

57 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said:

In the "how have you improved your process" category, the last thing I do before climbing into the airplane is go stand 20-30 feet off the nose and give everything a last big picture look. I caught a low tire once that had looked fine in the hangar so it catches more than the obvious stuff with flags and such.

My last item on the checklist before boarding is "Final walk around".

Having said that, the main challenge is being "present" while doing the final walk around. It happened a couple of times that I did it on "autopilot" and could have missed one or two things. So far, knock on wood, I never took off with a red sign hanging from the airplane.

Edited Monday at 04:32 AM by redbaron1982

[Justin Schmidt]

57 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I've caught the strobes still flashing

This is why my beacon never gets turned off

[Sue Bon]

Chocks once. Also once I couldn't close a fuel tank cap cleanly while holding the fuel pump. I just put it on top, covering the hole and forgot about it. I noticed it during the "controls free and correct" check on the taxiway. Luckily no one was behind me, so I could shut down and get out to close it.

[GeeBee]

Gear pins. Seen it twice. Causes airborne returns The most unusual was a pax window plug left in by maintenance. Blew out at 6000’ from the pressure load. Poor F/O who did the walkaround had to do a complete requalification.

My rule on GA IS always go to the front of the a/c before getting in and do “sanity check”

[Slick Nick]

Always always sump the tanks. Always. 

Even if you fueled it yourself. What was the quality of the avgas you just put in? Was it full of water? 

I always let it settle out for 5-10 minutes after fueling, then sump the tanks. Haven't found any water or contaminants yet, but that doesn't mean it's time wasted. 

[Rick Junkin]

37 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

I always let it settle out for 5-10 minutes after fueling, then sump the tanks. Haven't found any water or contaminants yet, but that doesn't mean it's time wasted. 

I know this isn't practical for everyone, but my practice is to fuel and preflight the airplane and avionics at home the day before departure, and then do another exterior walk-around and sump the tanks the day of. I essentially do the same at the destination by fueling on arrival and performing a jaundiced-eye post flight inspection after I put her to bed. Mama doesn't mind the arrival delay because she knows it helps ensure there won't be extensive waiting at the airport when we're ready to go home. Plus it cuts down on my, "Gee, I hope the airplane's ok and we'll be able to get fuel" blank stares during our stay 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Slick Nick said:

Always always sump the tanks. Always. 

Even if you fueled it yourself. What was the quality of the avgas you just put in? Was it full of water? 

I always let it settle out for 5-10 minutes after fueling, then sump the tanks. Haven't found any water or contaminants yet, but that doesn't mean it's time wasted. 

I found water once after flying 20 minutes for fuel to come home from the beach (at my normal fuel stop, since my destination had nothing). I told the lineman that I'd found water, but I'd also been parked outside all week. It was about 1/8" in my sample cup, the only water I've ever found in my Mooney. 

[SKI]

20 hours ago, Marc_B said:

Personally I don’t like keeping tow bar attached when not in use. I understand why some do it, and tow bar used as a chock seems okay. But my habit is when the tow bar is on it’s in my hand and when not in my hand it’s off will save a LOT of damage. It’s happened to a local pilot. 
 

I also have the habit of putting my tow bar, cowl plugs and pitot cover in the back where the pilot can see them. I’ve looked over my shoulder to verify them more than once. Reassuring to see them before the key goes in the ignition. 
 

** the above are my habits and not trying to convince anyone else what they should or shouldn’t be doing. 

I do exactly the same and it saved me once. The day I brought my J home from transition training I landed and parked on the ramp so I could move my Cherokee to another hangar and put the Mooney in mine. I was running late flying home from training and my buddy was giving me a ride home since I rented a car and drove one way to the plane. He was running late for a family thing. When I parked on the ramp I just stopped near the edge as it's a sleepy rural airport with not much activity near sunset. As I'm working on shuffling planes (In a rush cause my buddy is late) I hear a jet land and my plane is closer to the taxi way than I wanted to be with a jet taxiing by. I run over grab the tow bar and pull it ahead 100 feet or so just to be safe. Took the tow bar out of the nose gear and laid it on the ground next to the nose wheel. Moved the Cherokee, Fired up the Mooney and taxied to my hangar. Pushed it in and went OH SHIT. I walked out to the ramp and there's the tow bar laying on the ramp right where I laid it. No harm no foul but I would have thrown up had I left it in the nose gear and had a prop strike the day I brought my new toy home all cause of being in a rush. The tow bar only leaves my hand when it's on the ground or in the baggage compartment.

[FlyingDude]

Why isn't there a "Nothing" box?  

[47U]

4 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

Why isn't there a "Nothing" box?  

Perhaps, I get it.  But I don’t think the object of the poll was to find out how many pilots are out there who have never made a mistake.  Kinda like, filing an ASRS to report that nothing went wrong?

I’m of the opinion that, if you’re in the game, sooner or later it’s your turn.  Just don’t be chronic.

[FlyingDude]

5 minutes ago, 47U said:

I’m of the opinion that, if you’re in the game, sooner of later it’s your turn.  

Ok

[dkkim73]

20 minutes ago, 47U said:

Kinda like, filing an ASRS to report that nothing went wrong?

That's an idea. That was a great flight. A perfect flight, really. OMG I must have missed something. Best file that ASRS report...

[Jackk]

14 hours ago, PT20J said:

Great idea. I also do that post flight. I've caught the strobes still flashing because I somehow left the master switch on more than once.

Strobes?

 

you mean beacon or navs?

[Jackk]

Forgot plugs on a rental arrow once, they didn’t have the rope between them and were pushed into the cowl, to make it even better the owner thought they’d look good the same color of the plane lol

 

 oops, no harm done thankfully, this was also fresh CPL me lol

 

 since then on the plugs on my plane I have the strap around a prop plane to throw them if forgotten 

 

I also do a once around before every start 

[redbaron1982]

55 minutes ago, 47U said:

But I don’t think the object of the poll was to find out how many pilots are out there who have never made a mistake.

Actually, that was the objective. There is a thread on the Accident sub forum about using tank vent covers to prevent insects from nesting inside. @201er is of the opinion that it would cause more accidents than the ones it would prevent, and then this poll was created to "find out" if that's true. The funny thing is that the poll assumes that everyone forgets something, so there is no option to "I never forgot to remove a RBF tag". So technically it won't give any useful information to know if it is better to have protect the tank vents, risking forgetting to remove the tag, or leaving it unprotected, risking a bug getting inside and clogging it.

[Skates97]

4 hours ago, Slick Nick said:

Always always sump the tanks. Always. 

Even if you fueled it yourself. What was the quality of the avgas you just put in? Was it full of water? 

I always let it settle out for 5-10 minutes after fueling, then sump the tanks. Haven't found any water or contaminants yet, but that doesn't mean it's time wasted. 

Even when it's locked in the hangar I still sump them the next flight. Just a good habit.

[PT20J]

47 minutes ago, Jackk said:

Strobes?

 

you mean beacon or navs?

My airplane doesn't have a beacon and I only use the nav lights at night. 

[MikeOH]

8 minutes ago, PT20J said:

My airplane doesn't have a beacon and I only use the nav lights at night. 

Same with my plane.

[MikeOH]

14 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Even when it's locked in the hangar I still sump them the next flight. Just a good habit.

EXACTLY!

It's also why I also check for correct control movement during every pre-flight so that when it comes out of service some day and the controls have been hooked up incorrectly I'll catch it.

[47U]

5 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Actually, that was the objective.

I get the correlation of the poll to the fuel vent thread.  I took the poll as an expansion on the subject of ground safety devices as promoting safety awareness rather than a scientific exercise to measure what positive or negative outcomes can be established by their use.

My takeaway from the tank vent thread was that a vent (or vent ground cover) could be designed that defeats insects, but allows the vent to function if the cover was not removed.  Something along the lines of the little flapper pitot tube cover on my ‘62 Cherokee which used airspeed to function.  But then, any additional induced drag by such a device would probably be rejected by the Mooney community.

[TangoTango]

1 hour ago, 47U said:

My takeaway from the tank vent thread was that a vent (or vent ground cover) could be designed that defeats insects, but allows the vent to function if the cover was not removed.  Something along the lines of the little flapper pitot tube cover on my ‘62 Cherokee which used airspeed to function.  But then, any additional induced drag by such a device would probably be rejected by the Mooney community.

I wouldn't leave anything that isn't conforming to the type certificate on the vent in flight, drag or no drag. I think the takeaway is that plugs can be designed to fail safe rather than fail dangerous if you forget them (i.e. use a design that isn't 100% air tight) and that you should develop (and use!) a walkaround procedure to ensure you remove all ground covers from the aircraft before flight. Cowl plugs and tailcone covers are similarly dangerous if left on, but they are widely used with similar care.

[GeeBee]

Sort of particular to a Mooney. Go before you go. Make sure your passengers go before you go. No matter how fast or high we go the entire operation is slaved to bowels and bladders. Nothing worse than  settling down on a long flight someone saying:

 

On airliners, I've seen airborne returns for failure to preflight the waste tanks at great cost to company and passengers.

[Jackk]

21 hours ago, PT20J said:

My airplane doesn't have a beacon and I only use the nav lights at night. 

 So you taxi around with the strobes eye smacking everyone?

 

 Diffrent world, but in the bigger stuff we leave the navs on all the time (most are LEDs anyways), beacon comes one right before we start engines, strobes are on when flying or on a active runway, though we will turn them off if we are in lots of snow or something and getting the disco ball effect 

 

When I flew a buddies cirrus without a beacon I’d hit the strobes just for a flash or two before starting but otherwise standard strobe rules of not taxing around with the things on 

[201er]

5 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 So you taxi around with the strobes eye smacking everyone?

 

 Diffrent world, but in the bigger stuff we leave the navs on all the time (most are LEDs anyways), beacon comes one right before we start engines, strobes are on when flying or on a active runway, though we will turn them off if we are in lots of snow or something and getting the disco ball effect 

 

When I flew a buddies cirrus without a beacon I’d hit the strobes just for a flash or two before starting but otherwise standard strobe rules of not taxing around with the things on 

Many Mooneys don't have beacons. The FAA has stated that the strobes gotta be on from startup to shutdown except when "it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off"

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-C/section-91.209

https://www.faa.gov/media/13821