Step removed from some mooneys?

[FlyDave]

Quote: JimR

Retractable steps were standard equipment prior to '68, when the retractable step was replaced by a fixed step.  As an aside, several other items were "cheapened" in '68 as well.  Some of the flush riveting was removed as was the dorsal fin.  Prior to '65 when Postive Control (PC) became standard, the retractable step was mechanically actuated by a little hand crank on the pilot's interior sidewall.  From '65 to '67, the retractable step was pneumatically actuated and required no pilot input.  When the engine is running, it is up.  When you shut down and the vacuum pump stops pumping, it goes down on it's own.

By '78 when my 201 was made, the fixed step was optional.  Maybe it was from '68 on.  I don't know for sure.  I think that, at that time, the step was a less than $20 piece of optional equipment, so I can't imagine that finances drove anyone's decision to buy it or not.  I've read that the fixed step extracts a 1 mph speed penalty, but who knows whether that is true or not.  I personally think that the best reason not to have a step installed is the cleaner asthetics. 

[FlyDave]

Quote: JimR

That is correct.  With a 201, you'll either have a fixed step or no step at all.

Jim

[skyking]

I cant speak for all Mooneys but i have the retractable step and i know if i forget to bring it up i get a 5 knot penalty so i am in favour of the retactable step.

[drpep]

Very interesting banrer on the step issue. I am the owner of 1 67E with a retractable step . I use it for a number of reasons; firstly I come with metal hardware in my foot making a step easier for egress. I also find that my step seems to take its time in retracting; or it has a mind of its own. I will relube it and check the rigging and vacuum when it stops raining up here in BEAUTIFUL BC. Thanks for the background info gentlemen.

drpep

[drpep]

Very interesting banter on the step issue. I am the owner of a  67E with a retractable step . I use it for a number of reasons; firstly I come with metal hardware in my foot making a step easier for egress. I also find that my step seems to take its time in retracting; or it has a mind of its own. I will relube it and check the rigging and vacuum when it stops raining up here in BEAUTIFUL BC. Thanks for the background info gentlemen.

drpep

[carusoam]

[1] Use caution when cleaning the spring on the retractable step.  If you push up on the step while it is in the down position, the spring may twist itself up and become difficult to untangle.  I used WD-40 and paper towels, and did it about twice per year.

[2] If I was quick to pop out of the cabin (hot summer days), I could beat the deployment of the step.  Otherwise it was pretty timely.

[3] A challenge for guests using the step on the 65C: There is only room for one foot, Going down - if they use their left foot, it can become a tripping hazard... An explanation of how to use the step goes with, "please" don't step on the flap.

Either way, it is good to have and best when it is working properly. 

- Anthony -

[Buster1]

Curious, what do 231s have for steps?  Fixed?

[Guest Anonymous]

Quote: Mitch

Hi Dave.

I believe the step is very useful and very convenient.  I've stepped on the flap myself even with the step.  The step probably does help folks miss the flap on the way down, as they are concentration on getting their foot to land on the step.  I do find myself jumping off the wing from time to time on the way down and bypassing the step........it just depends.  Hope that helps.

[MooneyMitch]

Through reading Those Remarkable Mooneys, I discovered that the step was not installed on the M20J Lean Machine!  That explains why some of your J's have them and some don't.  What a fun book this is!!

[scottfromiowa]

When I purchased my '66 E the step did not properly retract.  The spring was kaput.  I remember thinking it looked like an open can of kippers and cost only about $10 to replace (cost of part)...one of the least expensive parts I've ever replaced on X-Ray.  Tri-Flow (spray can) is a WONDERFUL lubricant that works well in this type of application.  "When people are waiting for me and see shut-down they always comment about the "neat step".  I tell them it's just happy to see you...

[skycop]

Previous to my purchase, a former owner removed the step and installed a "ski tube".  The tube is actually an 18" X 18" X 4' box that fits in the aft fuselage.  The opening for the box is on the starboard side of the baggage area just below the baggage door.  They had also installed some Cessna (ugh) rear seats with fold foreward seat backs.  The "ski tube" came in very handy for storing some camping equipment on an Oshkosh trip.  Had to watch the weight & balance, but it wasn't too hard to do.

[greg bauer]

201PB Old topic, but as my legs quit wanting to bend, it was add step or buy ladder.

[jetdriven]

I bought a 15$ step stool and a 80 year old lady got in my 201 no problem. This airplane wing isn't as high off the ground as many others. If wager it's lower than any other GA airplane.

[Seth]

My Missile does not have a step.  I'm not sure when it was removed or if it never came with one.   I do not plan to add it, and have a plastic step stool in the hanger for those that need it or when I have someone on board who may need it, I put it in the luggage compartment.  I personally am short 5'6" and don't need it.  Then again, in 40+ years that may change.

 

-Seth

[aviatoreb]

I wish someone here had a befo

 

My Missile does not have a step.  I'm not sure when it was removed or if it never came with one.   I do not plan to add it, and have a plastic step stool in the hanger for those that need it or when I have someone on board who may need it, I put it in the luggage compartment.  I personally am short 5'6" and don't need it.  Then again, in 40+ years that may change.

 

-Seth

 

I wish someone here had a before and after measurement of cruise speed with step, and then speed once the step was removed.

[helitim]

Many references have been made about stepping on the flaps. Do you gentleman not park your plane with the flaps down just for that reason ? I leave them down after landing.

[aviatoreb]

Many references have been made about stepping on the flaps. Do you gentleman not park your plane with the flaps down just for that reason ? I leave them down after landing.

 

That is exactly what I do for exactly that reason.

[aaronk25]

I leave flaps down when I store at home base in hanger it's eaiser for de-board. Either way it's not a big deal.

I did some checking on before and after speeds and the best I can quantify is down low 4k at higher IAS step removed is worth 1-3kts up at 9k it's less because IAS is less.

But with no step, no strobe, flap hindge covers removed and powerflow exhaust I can run 171kts at 4k... Removing a the items below probably amounted to 5-6kts and the powerflow made the rest. This is the most honest account I think I can make.

Drag mods obviously make less difference at higher altitudes due to lower drag.

Unless you got at turbo and indicate 150-160kts all the way up....then it might be worth getting rid off.

[aviatoreb]

I leave flaps down when I store at home base in hanger it's eaiser for de-board. Either way it's not a big deal.

I did some checking on before and after speeds and the best I can quantify is down low 4k at higher IAS step removed is worth 1-3kts up at 9k it's less because IAS is less.

But with no step, no strobe, flap hindge covers removed and powerflow exhaust I can run 171kts at 4k... Removing a the items below probably amounted to 5-6kts and the powerflow made the rest. This is the most honest account I think I can make.

Drag mods obviously make less difference at higher altitudes due to lower drag.

Unless you got at turbo and indicate 150-160kts all the way up....then it might be worth getting rid off.

 

Aha - 1-3kts for the step.  And you are the first person I have heard that has come out to make a specific before and after measured statement.

 

I am very tempted.

[Mooney in Oz]

I recall some years back when I was part of a US Mooney Mailing (email) List there was a similar discussion regarding the pros and cons of the step.  

 

Former Mooney test pilot, Bob Kromer used to chime in occasionally during various discussions with useful information together with data he still retained from his various test flights to help answer questions.  

 

Bob chimed in re this same discussion and said that when Mooney factory engineering had become interested in finding out the difference between speeds with the step attached and detached, he was asked to obtain the data.  He flew a Mooney (type escapes me) at different flight regimes with the aircraft all wired up with the necessary plumbing and instruments to evaluate the results.

 

The final results reported by Bob were a difference of .5 of a knot at best.

 

Some members here would remember Bob's contributions.  I wish that he was able to contribute to this awesome forum.  What an asset.

 

Victor

[aaronk25]

I think it really matters if at 2000ft or 8000ft. As we know drag drops as IAS drop my best estimate of 1-3kts is at 2000ft. Prob 1kt or less at 8000ft. One does have to ask where at what altitude do we operate our planes? It probably isn't a big deal either way.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Cyril Gibb]

If you have time to spare, try this: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/foil3.html

It's a drag calculator.  I had just a bare round  tube step post on my F.  Popping in the numbers showed a theoretical drag of about 10 lbs.

A J style fairing we added calculates out at about 1/10 lb.

That was done in conjunction with a bunch of other things, so I have no idea of actual improvement.

[Shadrach]

I love my retractable step! 47yrs of trouble free ops (still on the same boot). Mine starts to drops just after the mixture is pulled. I hear a familiar light thunk just as the prop stops. It's these kinds of features that I find charming in the 60s birds. Well engineered mechanisms that are elegant, reliable and efficient.

[Raptor05121]

I find this discussion interesting. Looking back to my grandfathers '67 M20F, he had the retractable step. As a kid, I remember him saying it never worked. I remember pushing up on it and thinking it was the coolest thing ever. Mooney's have always held a spot in my heart and every time I go to an airport I always skim the flight line for one.

As for the discussion, I'm 6'3" @ 180lbs, and I can just about jump a fence at 23 years old. So I am interested in the speed and when it comes time to own a Mooney, I've got no interest in a step.