Flying for work

[JayMatt]

I'm trying to understand what the right thing to do here is. 

My Job wants me to travel and do some inspections on multimillion dollar equipment we purchased. This place is out in the middle of nowhere Mississippi. It's an inconvenient flight and then 3 hour drive by car to get there. Meals, overnight stay and all that jaz. Of it's an hour and a half from my home airport to a landing strip 20 minutes away in a courtesy car. I've asked to take my airplane because I don't really want to go if I can't fly myself. I can do the whole round trip in a day and be done if I fly myself. If I go the commercial route its a 2 day event with tons of driving in some crap rental car and probably a spirit airlines ticket. 

As I understand the law. I can fly myself and charge mileage at 1.74 a mile there and back again right? This should meet all the conditions for me getting reimbursed 'for flying my plane? I am just a PP. But do I understand this correctly?   

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, JayMatt said:

I'm trying to understand what the right thing to do here is. 

My Job wants me to travel and do some inspections on multimillion dollar equipment we purchased. This place is out in the middle of nowhere Mississippi. It's an inconvenient flight and then 3 hour drive by car to get there. Meals, overnight stay and all that jaz. Of it's an hour and a half from my home airport to a landing strip 20 minutes away in a courtesy car. I've asked to take my airplane because I don't really want to go if I can't fly myself. I can do the whole round trip in a day and be done if I fly myself. If I go the commercial route its a 2 day event with tons of driving in some crap rental car and probably a spirit airlines ticket. 

As I understand the law. I can fly myself and charge mileage at 1.74 a mile there and back again right? This should meet all the conditions for me getting reimbursed 'for flying my plane? I am just a PP. But do I understand this correctly?   

It depends on your company. They may have a policy of reimbursing actual expenses (airline ticket, car rental, hotel, per diem) or if they are Ok with you flying (fuel plus uber or car rental).

There's no law that says anyone has to reimburse you $1.74 per mile. The IRS may allow that amount as a deductible expense or some agencies may reimburse that amount, but your company isn't bound to do that.

The biggest obstacle is that they may not want the exposure of you flying "for the company". They could be named in a lawsuit if anything happens since you were representing the company.

[JayMatt]

3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

It depends on your company. They may have a policy of reimbursing actual expenses (airline ticket, car rental, hotel, per diem) or if they are Ok with you flying (fuel plus uber or car rental).

There's no law that says anyone has to reimburse you $1.74 per mile. The IRS may allow that amount as a deductible expense or some agencies may reimburse that amount, but your company isn't bound to do that.

The biggest obstacle is that  may not want the exposure of you flying "for the company". They could be named in a lawsuit if anything happens since you were representing the company.

All I have is this from the gov website. I do understand your point that it's probably up to. 

Privately owned vehicle (POV) mileage reimbursement rates | GSA

As far as lawsuits go, wouldn't that be the same as anything else? If I were driving out there and got in a wreck I'd be driving for the company. I understand a plane wreck might be different in damages but my flying isn't a condition of my job or this task, It would just be way more convenient for me to fly myself over my other options. 

[N201MKTurbo]

What you get reimbursed is between you and your employer. It usually comes down to what they can write off as a business expense. I usually just charge car mileage, unless it is significantly more than what it would cost to fly the airlines, then I will knock the mileage down. If you have two employees of the same company in your plane, it gets more interesting.

If you can get your employer to pay you $1.74/mile, good for you. 

[LANCECASPER]

59 minutes ago, JayMatt said:

All I have is this from the gov website. I do understand your point that it's probably up to. 

Privately owned vehicle (POV) mileage reimbursement rates | GSA

As far as lawsuits go, wouldn't that be the same as anything else? If I were driving out there and got in a wreck I'd be driving for the company. I understand a plane wreck might be different in damages but my flying isn't a condition of my job or this task, It would just be way more convenient for me to fly myself over my other options. 

Car accidents don't make the headlines and cause the plaintiff's attorneys to come out of the woodwork like airplane accidents do. They are just looking for the deepest pockets and if they find out your were an employee of the company flying for business they will name the company in the lawsuit. It just depends if your company sees that as a risk or not.

I did consulting work and used my airplane and charged the client for fuel there and back. Finally they said they would pay the lesser of that expense or an airline ticket. Using my airplane was a lot more convenient for me on most of the trips. Other times the airline was the better choice. The difference was that I was an Independent Contractor and not a company employee so they didn't see it as a risk.

[JayMatt]

20 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

What you get reimbursed is between you and your employer. It usually comes down to what they can write off as a business expense. I usually just charge car mileage, unless it is significantly more than what it would cost to fly the airlines, then I will knock the mileage down. If you have two employees of the same company in your plane, it gets more interesting.

If you can get your employer to pay you $1.74/mile, good for you. 

I will probably be put in the .55 or whatever it is category. either way, if I can get the cost of gas  back I'm good with it. even then I'd probably eat that cost too just to not have to fly commercial. Saving 8 hours of drive time over 2 days would be well worth it to me. Not to mention the 2 hours early to the airport BS

[Boilermonkey]

I had to add my company as "additionally insured" on my insurance policy.  That cost nothing additional, but reduced their initial liability should something happen.   I've only been able to get car milage reimbursed...now that their is a aircraft rate, maybe I'll try, but I doubt that's in Concur.

[N201MKTurbo]

At my last employer, the owner had an B36TC. I think he would have liked to come up with a policy that would exclude me from flying and allow him to fly, but he couldn't. Our planes were both IFR single engine turbocharged airplanes and I had more hours and more license than he did.

FWIW,

About 35 years ago I worked for a company where the owner owned a Cessna Cutlass RG. We raced to Tucson once and I beat him handially with my M20F. A week later he bought a turbo 182 RG. It could hang with me. At my last employer the owner owned half interest in an old Bonanza. We raced to Tucson too, and I beat him. About a month later he bought the B36TC. Now he outruns me by about 20 KTS.

[MB65E]

You should be able to bill mileage at the current .56¢/ mi rate. or whatever it is this year. 

My employer had issue with FBO fuel receipts with un-managed aircraft tail numbers on the receipts. So I don’t submit those anymore. 

As mentioned,  a contractor can do whatever they want, and employee needs to be more careful. 
 

If it’s that much easier, I’d just fly, get the job done, and “eat“ the cost. 
Make the difference up with a few nice company meals. 
 

-Matt

[EricJ]

As mentioned this is really up to your employer.     In the past when I've done comparable stuff (as a contractor) it was usually to meet others at a meeting, and usually whoever I was reporting through was in that meeting.   I'd get a copy of their airline ticket cost and just bill that, because they were fine with that and it avoided having to figure out appropriate rates, etc., etc.   This is generally way easier as a contractor, since it's just another expense that gets approved or not.    With employees you're generally on your employer's insurance and accounting rules, etc., etc., so it gets trickier.

 

[0TreeLemur]

As a federal employee when I travel for business using my Mooney, here's what federal travel policy allows:

1.  Current (f.y. 24) GSA personal aircraft reimbursement rate = $1.76/mile

2.  Look up GSA one-way contract air fare for city-to-city pair $X

3.  Calculate 1-way personal aircraft reimburseable mileage as: $X/$1.76

In short, I cannot be reimbursed an amount greater than the negotiated contract air fare between those two cities.  At least I have the freedom to fly myself and avoid the airlines if willing.   I seldom get reimbursed for the true cost of the flight, but I enjoy the freedom and time savings.   Sometimes, the contract air fare is so low that it just makes more sense to fly commercial.

I always book a flight any time I plan a trip as a backup.   Since federal tickets are fully refundable I cancel it if I decide to fly myself.   In every case so far, the cost of my trip to the federal government is less if I fly myself than if I fly commercially, because it eliminates expenses such a driving to the distant commercial airport, airport parking, and usually one nights lodging and associated per-diem to accommodate airline schedules.

 

 

[geoffb]

4 hours ago, Boilermonkey said:

I had to add my company as "additionally insured" on my insurance policy.  That cost nothing additional, but reduced their initial liability should something happen.   I've only been able to get car milage reimbursed...now that their is a aircraft rate, maybe I'll try, but I doubt that's in Concur.

Similar for me.  Got the employer a certificate of insurance on file.

[Yetti]

I just charged them the car mileage and enjoyed being home for dinner while the others sat in traffic.   The way I saw it the boss who never could figure out why I could not pop over from Houston to San Antonio for a day (7-8 hours of driving) should not care that much.    He lived in a Northern state where you can cross 3 states in 15 minutes.    Texas is bigger.  They not did ever say I could not take my motorcycle either.   Nothing in the policy manual about not flying.

Edited June 18 by Yetti

[Fritz1]

I am self employed and charge an economy plus ticket when I fly my aircraft to a client site, for morning meetings I fly in the night before so I am well rested.

Things get a more complicated for a company employee, the airplane catches all kinds of attention from co-worker and customers. Give it a try, charge the company less than otherwise incurred airline, rental car and hotel expense and see what happens. Make sure your flight runs like clockwork, people will be watching the most minute details.

[JayMatt]

Well as an update, they denied it altogether. The said "travel standard requires that “our personnel only fly on approved aircraft operated by reputable and audited operators”. So there we have it, it doesn't matter either way. 

I still use it for my personal company when I can. 

[natdm]

31 minutes ago, JayMatt said:

Well as an update, they denied it altogether. The said "travel standard requires that “our personnel only fly on approved aircraft operated by reputable and audited operators”. So there we have it, it doesn't matter either way. 

I still use it for my personal company when I can. 

Did you tell them you're reputable and audited in accordance with the FAA?

[natdm]

Part of the reason I've stuck with where I work is their policy on me flying, which is "wow that's cool!" and I always get asked, "Did you fly here?"

They're in UT and I'm in AZ, so not a super long flight. I used to have 5 coworkers here with me in AZ. Sadly I can't take any of them with me. That'd be super fun. When we had lay-offs, some of them explicitly told me where they went and if they allowed personal travel.

[Fritz1]

Sorry to hear, overall typically no win situation, part of the reason why I ceased to be a corporate guy, airplane typically is a red flag, all kinds of bells and whistles go off 

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, JayMatt said:

Well as an update, they denied it altogether. The said "travel standard requires that “our personnel only fly on approved aircraft operated by reputable and audited operators”. So there we have it, it doesn't matter either way. 

I still use it for my personal company when I can. 

I would get clarification on what an "approved aircraft" is and what a "reputable and audited" operator means. I haven't seen either of those terms in the FARs.

Ask for a list of approved aircraft and a list of reputable and audited operators. Can they show you the audit report from Southwest Airlines?

I would submit copies of your BFR which proves that you are an audited operator and a copy of your annual inspection which proves that your aircraft is approved.

Tell them that you need the requirements to be approved and that you are just trying to meet the requirements. I know they will tell you that you can never meet the requirements.

[Fly Boomer]

9 hours ago, JayMatt said:

I will probably be put in the .55 or whatever it is category. either way, if I can get the cost of gas  back I'm good with it. even then I'd probably eat that cost too just to not have to fly commercial. Saving 8 hours of drive time over 2 days would be well worth it to me. Not to mention the 2 hours early to the airport BS

Ask your company's in-house council what your reimbursement is.

[Pinecone]

There are several ways to do the reimbursement.

The Fed rate of $1.76 per mile is accepted by the IRS as an acceptable rate.  That is, you don't have to keep records to show that your cost is more or less than that amount.

You can also keep detailed records and get back exactly what it costs you to fly the trip.

For Fed employees, you normally have to compare commercial air versus flying yourself.  But the commercial air cost includes mileage to/from the airport, parking, over night lodging and per diem if applicable, plus the air fare.  But you don't need to do this comparison for the IRS.

[FlyingDude]

Man, I wish I saw this thread before you asked your company. That's a great no go. Way back, at a previous employer, the admin lady was actually enthusiastic to get me flying and she inquired with the the purpose of making it work. The obstacles were 1) need 2nd pilot even in a single pilot plane 2) need some sort of insurance add on. Apparently it qualifies as charter and regular corporate insurance that covers airlines don't cover that because corporate insurance subrogates onto the airlines' insurance policy.

Some people just fly and claim mileage. Their verbal agreement with the boss is that if they crash, well they called in that day. I think that can "fly" in a small company... Definitely not in corporate...

[natdm]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I would get clarification on what an "approved aircraft" is and what a "reputable and audited" operator means. I haven't seen either of those terms in the FARs.

Ask for a list of approved aircraft and a list of reputable and audited operators. Can they show you the audit report from Southwest Airlines?

I would submit copies of your BFR which proves that you are an audited operator and a copy of your annual inspection which proves that your aircraft is approved.

Tell them that you need the requirements to be approved and that you are just trying to meet the requirements. I know they will tell you that you can never meet the requirements.

Agreed with your last sentence, but doesn't that mean none of this is worth anything? If I know all the answers to all the questions leads to no, I don't really ask. It just creates dialogue that only exists to irritate either party.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I work for a privately owned company and fly to remote job sites a couple times a month.  The current deal is I’m paid a fixed “travel reimbursement” per trip and I am responsible for getting myself to the remote work however I choose.  I have had to drive before when my plane was down for maintenance (which completely sucked)  so I can legitimately say I am being paid to travel out of town and not for flying.    
 

The amount I’m being paid doesn’t actually cover all of the expense of operating the airplane but it does reduce the cost and if I factor in the commission for the work I do I’m sure I come out ahead.  
 

 

[Yetti]

3 hours ago, JayMatt said:

Well as an update, they denied it altogether. The said "travel standard requires that “our personnel only fly on approved aircraft operated by reputable and audited operators”. So there we have it, it doesn't matter either way. 

I still use it for my personal company when I can. 

They trust you with millions of dollars of equipment and negotiate million dollar deals and makes lots of money for them, but they don't trust you to get there in the conveyance of your choosing.    Ask if you can ride your motorcylce to the customer site.