Advice on an orphaned K model?

[BlueSky247]

Would appreciate y’alls advice on this one. 
 

I stumbled across a K model marooned in the tie downs at a nearby strip. Flightaware says it landed there a year ago and hasn’t moved since. The plane has no covers and one tie down has come away. It clearly is not being looked after. It’s an 88 and peeking inside shows an upgraded panel and things appear in decent shape visually other than a low tire. 
 

I searched the registration and think I found the owner’s business. I also see it looks like they bought the plane 11 months prior to that last flight. So I’m going to swing by and see what the story is, see if they want to sell. 
 

Obviously, it would need that pre-buy, and I already have a local A&P that will help me out with that. 
 

So my question for you guys is this.  What kind of ballpark offer would be reasonable, contingent on the inspection? (Assuming the engine isn’t timed out, etc)

[Rwsavory]

Not enough info. 

[MikeOH]

There is a reason that plane has sat for a year: it needs MONEY!

Will this be your first plane ownership experience?

Do you want to buy and fly, or buy and spend a bunch of time and money, not to mention frustration trying to get to fly?

This one sounds like you are looking for a 'deal' on price...don't do that!

My $0.02 of advice: Buy a plane that has been and is being frequently flown.

[PeteMc]

It will be interesting to hear what the story is about buying a plane and then letting it sit for 9 months.

I think @MikeOH hit the nail with "it needs MONEY!"

 

[Pinecone]

The good news is, the Continental can be checked for cam and lifter corrosion without taking a cylinder or two off.

The bad news, it will need some money.  But worth looking into.

[BlueSky247]

Thanks all. It’s not so much me hoping for a steal of a price as it is seeing this as an opportunity to save something that isn’t too far on the neglect scale yet. And not pay a crackhead price like you see online for old birds with steam gauges and timed out engines. 

[teethdoc]

I bought a mooney like that 10+ years ago.  It was in a hanger though.  The owner passed away and it took that long for his wife to get around to selling it.  Got a fantastic deal on it.  He flew it regular and kept it well maintained while he was alive.  I got a very thorough pre-buy and probably a little lucky that I didn’t spend a year working out gremlins.

See if you can find the mechanic that has been doing the annuals etc.

[LANCECASPER]

32 minutes ago, teethdoc said:

I bought a mooney like that 10+ years ago.  It was in a hanger though.  The owner passed away and it took that long for his wife to get around to selling it.  Got a fantastic deal on it.  He flew it regular and kept it well maintained while he was alive.  I got a very thorough pre-buy and probably a little lucky that I didn’t spend a year working out gremlins.

See if you can find the mechanic that has been doing the annuals etc.

 If he (1) kept it in a hangar and (2) flew it regularly and (3) maintained it regularly it's a completely different ballgame than this one where it's a recent owner that kept it outside and doesn't fly it and hasn't maintained it.

In 2015 I bought a M20M that was hangared, from a widow . The owner who had a terminal illness would go out every month and do a taxi and run up. It hadn't been in annual for a few years but I knew what I was getting into. All of that being said, by the time I was done with the airplane I had into it just as much, maybe a little more, than if I had just bought another well maintained, often flown, in-annual M20M at the time. That was with me doing a lot of the labor and working closely with my IA. Had I dropped it off at a Mooney Service Center I would have had a lot more into it. I sold it back in 2021. I learned a lot about the airplane and have no regrets but I wouldn't want to do it again.

 

[LANCECASPER]

11 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

So my question for you guys is this.  What kind of ballpark offer would be reasonable, contingent on the inspection? (Assuming the engine isn’t timed out, etc)

That's a little like asking, what is an '88 BMW worth? It depends.

Was it kept in a garage or is it sitting in the middle of a field with cats living in it? Is it low miles? What condition is the body? Any damage history? Interior? Engine? Has it been regularly serviced by a specialist shop or dealer?

Before you get emotionally involved in the airplane, if it is for sale at a price you can pay, have someone that knows Mooneys look at the logs first. If it passes that test then think about making a firm offer contingent on a "satisfactory pre-buy"*.

Many people think think their airplane that's been sitting on the ramp is worth much more than it actually is  ..  that's why it sits there for years. Or they have every good intention of flying again and aren't ready to sell. It takes a lot of years of paying tie-down or hangar rent to finally rationalize that the holding costs are adding up. Many times it takes someone that's not attached emotionally (surviving spouse, children, executor, etc.) to want to get the thing sold.

*Buyer pays for pre-buy. Seller pays for airworthy items found during pre-buy. If Seller fails to pay for airworthy items to consummate sale, then Seller reimburses for pre-buy. The pre-buy on this one should concentrate on corrosion. Panels, interiors, engines, props, fuel tanks, paint all need repair or replacement over the years - it's the low time spotless airframe that you can't replace. There's a 252 being parted out right now by Alan Fox due to corrosion from sitting outside. 

[BlueSky247]

That’s true. Plus there really is no telling what the situation is with the owner. Since they bought it late in 2022, they could be stuck with a huge note. I didn’t look too closely at the panel but it was not factory by any stretch. I’d be really concerned of thieves just leaving it out like that. 
 

[BlueSky247]

@LANCECASPER I just read through that thread you linked. Thank you. I’m not in the habit of ignoring the advice of those that have gone before, and especially experiences with big dollar signs behind them. 
 

I’m still going to try to talk with the owner just to find out the story. The plane does have a unique paint job that has something of an ironic personal connection for me. So I do tend to listen to little signs like that. I would love to share a pic and more details but don’t want to risk there being a lurker weasel scooping the plane if it is actually worth getting. 
 

[Fly Boomer]

15 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

What kind of ballpark offer would be reasonable, contingent on the inspection?

To me, the big things that affect the price are prop, engine, airframe, paint, interior, panel, and how often it has been flown.  There can be quite a few sub-topics embedded in each of those areas, but it seems to me that sitting on a tie-down for a year can't be good for any of them.  Most of those things can be evaluated to a large extent by examination, but the engine is a crap-shoot.  To some extent, all engines are a crap-shoot.  Even engines in extremely well maintained airplanes that are regularly flown sometimes bite the dust unexpectedly.  On the other hand, even engines that have been sitting on a tie-down for a year without preservation or attention, sometimes come back to life without significant expense.  But there is certainly risk.  If I wanted a project, I would, to the best of my ability, determine the condition of all the components, assess the value as if it had been well maintained and frequently flown, and then apply a discount factor.  What factor?  Ten percent, 20 percent, 50 percent?  You will have to decide how risk averse you are.  In the end, it's likely the owner will remember what they paid for the airplane, and resist selling it for substantially less.

[MikeOH]

15 minutes ago, BlueSky247 said:

@LANCECASPER I just read through that thread you linked. Thank you. I’m not in the habit of ignoring the advice of those that have gone before, and especially experiences with big dollar signs behind them. 
 

I’m still going to try to talk with the owner just to find out the story. The plane does have a unique paint job that has something of an ironic personal connection for me. So I do tend to listen to little signs like that. I would love to share a pic and more details but don’t want to risk there being a lurker weasel scooping the plane if it is actually worth getting. 
 

Nothing wrong with your approach.  No idea how many planes you have looked at but be very careful if this is the first!  Odds of it being 'the one' are pretty low!

While I looked at too many over an embarassingly long period of time before buying mine, I knew it was 'the one' pretty quickly thanks to the experience of looking at so many.  You need to get 'calibrated', IMHO.

Also, be prepared to 'pull the trigger' immediately (not saying that's the case on this plane) as I lost out on one plane because I told the seller "I need to think it over"; it was sold when I called back a few days later.

[BlueSky247]

Fwiw, I did find a sticker on the prop that said it was new as of 12-22. Grabbed a pic of it:

 

[Utah20Gflyer]

I find a common issue with these situations is the owner will still expect top dollar for their neglected plane.  For this reason well maintained planes are generally the better bargain.  But you can always ask and see what happens.  

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

I find a common issue with these situations is the owner will still expect top dollar for their neglected plane.  For this reason well maintained planes are generally the better bargain.  But you can always ask and see what happens.  

EXACTLY!

"It was in perfect condition when I stopped flying it". The fact it has sat outside for over a year doesn't seem to factor into their thinking!

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, BlueSky247 said:

Fwiw, I did find a sticker on the prop that said it was new as of 12-22. Grabbed a pic of it:

 

That's an MT 3 blade prop. It could mean that the airplane was heavily upgraded but it could also mean that replacing the prop was a result of a prop strike, which sometimes do and sometimes don't end up in the logbook.

Looking at the paint around the cowling, it hasn't had much love recently.

[BlueSky247]

40 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

That's an MT 3 blade prop. It could mean that the airplane was heavily upgraded but it could also mean that replacing the prop was a result of a prop strike, which sometimes do and sometimes don't end up in the logbook.

Looking at the paint around the cowling, it hasn't had much love recently.

Good eye!

Unless I’m confused, that’s also a turbo engine. A turbo that has sat like this should be a big warning as well. 

[RoundTwo]

1 minute ago, BlueSky247 said:

Good eye!

Unless I’m confused, that’s also a turbo engine. A turbo that has sat like this should be a big warning as well. 

There’s also a neglected K on the ramp at KDNN. It flew in about 10 years ago, but until recently had been hangared.

[BlueSky247]

3 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

There’s also a neglected K on the ramp at KDNN. It flew in about 10 years ago, but until recently had been hangared.

Oh man. That is awful. 
That’s not far from here  howdy neighbor!

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, BlueSky247 said:

Good eye!

Unless I’m confused, that’s also a turbo engine. A turbo that has sat like this should be a big warning as well. 

K is a turbo.

1979-1985 K Models were Mooney 231s

1986-1990 K Models were Mooney 252s

1997-1998 K Models were Mooney Encores.

[BlueSky247]

Thanks! 252 would be just the ticket for these 6,000 foot mountains just north of me. 

[PeteMc]

3 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

Unless I’m confused, that’s also a turbo engine. A turbo that has sat like this should be a big warning as well. 

I wouldn't think one year would be an issue IF everything was okay before it was parked.  But certainly something to keep in the back of your mind on the first few flights.

[RoundTwo]

14 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

Oh man. That is awful. 
That’s not far from here  howdy neighbor!

 

Yeah, I took a run at it a couple of years ago but the owner thinks it’s still worth $150K.

Back at ‘ya from NW GA.

[BlueSky247]

Hey Gang,

 

Mystery solved. I tracked down the owner and had a nice chat with them today. Turns out they had a medical event after bringing the plane here and that is why it has sat. They are just now getting back to 100% and looking forward to getting back up there. They are not interested in selling it. It was nice to meet them and we left it at "hope to see each other out on the ramp sometime".

 

I'll be keeping an eye on it and if it still hasn't moved in a couple of months, I'll follow back up - assuming I don't find another by then.

 

Fwiw, this one is a 252 model and had tks installed at some point. Between that, the panel and that prop, I'd bet they paid a premium for it. Absolutely baffling why they didn't even put a cover on it or even tend to it any since then.