LASAR is for sale!

[smccray]

Quote: Mitch

"All I know is that I want a set of LASAR visors, so the future buyer has at least one sale... ."

Not sure if Paul is producing these lately but heck, you're right..........maybe I will buy LASAR so you can get your visors!!

[John Pleisse]

The real value is in their invention and STC's. This was the tragedy in the loss of Mod Works. They had numerous STC's that made flying Mooney's even more affordable.

[mooneygirl]

Don't you all go giving my husband a new job! HA. He has to keep me organized which is a full time effort.  All the best to Shery and Paul and Robert and the crew.  They deserve a rest and some sunshine!  Perhaps now we can find someone who wants to carry on the Mooney legacy.

[74657]

Quote: Shadrach

What kind of work are you in? I doubt that the liabilities would transfer, the seller would settle debt at closing. All of the things you mention would factor in, but if LASAR is in the revenue range that I think it is, a buyer would more likely use EBTDA (earnings before taxes depreciation and amortization). A multiple would then be attached to EBTDA based on the value and risk attributed to future earnings, good will, market factors, compition etc...

The starting point would look like EBTDA * some multiple based on the factors above  

[Bennett]

Just called Robert to wish him a happy retirement.  Robert had been wonderful to work with, as it has always been with Paul. I've been taking my Mooneys to LASAR for more than 25 years, and have had more LASAR STCs and "goodies" installed than I can count.  Really hope someone of their caliber buys LASAR.  Over the years I've worked with LASAR, the Mod Works, Mod Squad, Tim and Coy (not at the same time), and found them all to be good folks to work with, with great knowledge of Mooneys.  In fact, one of the reasons I purchased another Mooney is because of the relable maintenance service I always had at LASAR.  If they close, I have no idea where I will go for service.

[Shadrach]

Quote: 74657

What kind of work are you in? I doubt that the liabilities would transfer, the seller would settle debt at closing. All of the things you mention would factor in, but if LASAR is in the revenue range that I think it is, a buyer would more likely use EBTDA (earnings before taxes depreciation and amortization). A multiple would then be attached to EBTDA based on the value and risk attributed to future earnings, good will, market factors, compition etc...

The starting point would look like EBTDA * some multiple based on the factors above  

[DaV8or]

I'm actually looking for a new business venture and love Mooneys. The problem is... Clear Lake. I really don't want to move there and it's too far to commute. I wonder if this operation would function with an absentee owner? I doubt it. Sometimes works with things like fast food franchises, but in this case, it doesn't seem like a good idea.

[Immelman]

Quote: DaV8or

I'm actually looking for a new business venture and love Mooneys. The problem is... Clear Lake. I really don't want to move there and it's too far to commute. I wonder if this operation would function with an absentee owner? I doubt it. Sometimes works with things like fast food franchises, but in this case, it doesn't seem like a good idea.

[74657]

Quote: Shadrach

 

I have a backgrond in Finance and own 2 businesses.  Both are manufacturing companies, one of which deals in development of new technologies designed to offer cost savings to manufacturing operations at the same time reducing environmental impact. I just entertained to DRE's from GM today to discuss a technology I have developed for them.  Thanks for asking.

There are many ways to VALUE a business.  I did not say anything about "transferring liabilities"..... You forgot to include the "I" in EBITDA as many companies now have loans of some type and "Interest" is deducted.   A liability CAN be transferred.  Especially if it is of the non-cash type such as STC's (possible), ground contamination of they own an FBO with fuel.  I imagine that there will be a "hold harmless" that the attorneys will make the buyers sign and that, in my opinion is a huge potential liability. 

Valuing a business based upon "book value" numbers is simple.  The disparity between buyer and seller is not a tangible figure.  Buyer thinks multiplier should be higher (in this case it has nothing to do with future growth, technology, patents, etc.) and buyer wants it low.  In a business like this you have tools, buildings, a customer list, reputation and corporate memory.  The latter ones are where the true value lies and are hard to value as they do not guarantee future business, especially with a new owner. 

Sorry if I came across as not knowing what I am talking about. 

 

Now that we are on the subject, do enlighten me and tell us "what kind of work you are in"....

[74657]

Quote: DaV8or

I'm actually looking for a new business venture and love Mooneys. The problem is... Clear Lake. I really don't want to move there and it's too far to commute. I wonder if this operation would function with an absentee owner? I doubt it. Sometimes works with things like fast food franchises, but in this case, it doesn't seem like a good idea.

[GeorgePerry]

 LASAR is a Mooney support organization and the heart of it's business is parts sales, service and STC's.  The OBVIOUS entity to absorb LASAR is Mooney Aircraft Co.

Mooney isn't in the aircraft production business anymore.  The core of the business now are parts supply and customer support.  If LASAR is profitable (which I assume is the case) it would be a sound acquisition for Mooney.  Low overhead, an established customer base, and is in the heart of the 8th largest economy in the world...California.  An added benefit would Mooney Aircraft Co can take its first small step to reestablish itself as a General Aviation manufacturer. 

[mooneygirl]

Hear Hear George.  Let's get Mooney back in production!

[Steve65E-NC]

"The OBVIOUS entity to absorb LASAR is Mooney Aircraft Co."- George -  NOT

 

I know what you are saying - but I hope not.  Mooney will continue to go through cycles of VCs buying and loading up with debt and closing or dumping (a la Bain Capital).  I like the redundancy of an independently owned and owner operated support structure.  I have had great service at fair prices from Lasar over the years.  A Shark owned Mooney will just not provide that.  

[DaV8or]

Quote: 74657

 My opinion -

People who own/operate profitable small businesses tend to be rugged individualists.  I think that anyone who would want to purchase a small company and run without being "hands on" is destined for failure.  One runs out of people to blame far to fast when you only have a handful of people that work for you.  Either that or you wind up tying up all the profits paying a qualified person to manage the operation.

[johnggreen]

I'll have to cast my lot with Steve65E.  In the seven years that I have owned a Mooney and paying any attention to MAC, I have certainly not been impressed.  From the minute Mooney shut down production, I have thought that the prospect of Mooney ever going back into production is so completely unrealistic as to be fantasy.  Should I be proven wrong, I will put on a large bib and eat my crow with a large spoon.  My opinion, expressed by letter to the editor of MAPA was met with a fanciful rendition of how special Mooneys are, like Ferraris, and the factory is coming back because they are just such special hand made airplanes, blah, blah, blah, bull hookey.

Now, I'm sure I have irritated a few people, but like Steve seems to imply, I think the best we can hope for is for some talented, small, hands on operation to buy out the company for the ten cents on the dollar that it is worth and continue to supply the 6,000 plus flying Mooneys with parts.

OK, I'll log off now so you can proceed to kill the messenger.  Nobody really likes the hard truth.

Jgreen 

[DaV8or]

Quote: johnggreen

Now, I'm sure I have irritated a few people, but like Steve seems to imply, I think the best we can hope for is for some talented, small, hands on operation to buy out the company for the ten cents on the dollar that it is worth and continue to supply the 6,000 plus flying Mooneys with parts.

OK, I'll log off now so you can proceed to kill the messenger.  Nobody really likes the hard truth.

Jgreen 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: Steve65E-NC

"The OBVIOUS entity to absorb LASAR is Mooney Aircraft Co."- George -  NOT

I know what you are saying - but I hope not.  Mooney will continue to go through cycles of VCs buying and loading up with debt and closing or dumping (a la Bain Capital).  I like the redundancy of an independently owned and owner operated support structure.  I have had great service at fair prices from Lasar over the years.  A Shark owned Mooney will just not provide that.  

[NotarPilot]

Had I won that mega jackpot a couple weeks ago I would've bought not only LASAR but MAC too and turned my large fortune into a small one.

[fantom]

There are many sound reasons neither LASAR nor MAC have been purchased by knowledgable aviation people. Sad to say but it's all but impossible to make a fair return, given the market, the risk and the future.

I wish nothing but the best for both of them, however my rose colored glasses were tossed long ago. I've seen, first hand, how much time and effort smart people in these shops have to give frugal pilots looking to save a buck or just get free advise. They should charge for every call and rebate it upon sale.

Ever see a dentist spend untold hours on the phone giving out advise or quoting prices? Yet that is exactly what some consider researching an issue. Painful at best.

If an acceptable business case could be made it would be much more reasonable to roll what's left of the factory into a business like LASAR. I've spent too many years in acquisitions, mergers and divestitures to be real hopeful, but I suspect something fair will finally come out of this. We will be paying more for parts and services, however

Bain Capital, BTW, is the best in the business, saving untold jobs and businesses. Welfare is what the government gives away, not businesses running in the red.

 

[jetdriven]

I would use 10 minutes of Robert's time, but I also spent 100$ every time I called down there. I just hat misdiagnosing repairs, and so far, with his advice, I have gotten every one on the first shot.

[Shadrach]

Quote: 74657

 I took it as sarcastic that the first line asked for my background and the second sentence seemed to correct one of my statements. 

Moving on.....

 So, In your opinion what is the multiplier window you would target assuming the place is profitable in this industry?  I would say they would be lucky to get 3X EBITDA in a market like this (inventory NOT included in my math because that could be a huge with the lack of parts coming out of Mooney).

[John Pleisse]

Quote: DaV8or

No, actually I think quite a lot of us feel this way. Building more M20s in the current economic, market demand and regulatory environment, seems like a bad business proposition. Best to just make a profitable business out of providing parts and service to the existing fleet and then maybe one day, when the market is better and they have a surplus of cash, design a new Mooney airframe that better meets the requirements of the modern buyer.

[DaV8or]

Quote: N4352H

I hate to keep beating the same drum, but seeing hard fought after STC's whither to nothing is a waste...for the type, owners and even the factory.

[N601RX]

Quote: DaV8or

Yeah, I wonder if LASAR would consider spinning off it's STC business from the MSC and to a lesser extent, the used plane sales? If they broke the business into two peices like that, I'd guess that they'd actually get a little more for it in the end and somebody could focus just on cranking out the parts instead of answering phones and managing plane repairs.

[KSMooniac]

That is a great idea, Mike, if Paul and Sherry find there isn't a good, legitimate offer to purchase all of LASAR as it sits now.  For some of the STCs, though, there would be associated tooling and tribal knowledge required to fabricate parts, and that is a bit more difficult to transfer but still a good idea if the only alternative is simply closing the doors.