18 months for engine????

[Modify201]

We recently got a factory rebuilt IO-360-A3B6 on order from lycoming, we were being told a 6 month lead time for the engine up until we ordered it and now they said it could be 18 months out! Our current engine is already at TBO so we can’t fly, so is our prop and our new one is set to come in early January. We are doing some airframe and avionics work too which was all slated to be done by the spring and we planned for our engine to arrive this late May or early June. Now we could be waiting a whole other year. What is happening???

[kortopates]

Where are you that you can’t fly past TBO?
Both engine manufacturers have yet to recover from the pandemic.


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[Modify201]

Had a Prop strike. Not worth the trouble of the whole inspection process just to squeeze 200 more hours out of it at most.

[Modify201]

(Follow up) we decided it would be better to go not waste money on the year down and put that towards a new engine instead.

[kortopates]

Given the wait, I’d suggest considering the alternatives to factory engine and consult with any of the top engine rebuilders. There is nothing superior about a factory engine since several of the boutique engine shops rebuild them to better than just new limits in under 18 months. The one thing the factory can do for you is roller tappets which is a compelling argument. But otherwise boutique shops can out perform the factory in quality and timing.

Additionally insurance pays for the prop strike inspection and rebuild allowing you to just pay for all the parts to turn an inspection into an overhaul with your favorite rebuilder - or put the inspection $ towards a factory engine.

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[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Modify201 said:

Had a Prop strike. Not worth the trouble of the whole inspection process just to squeeze 200 more hours out of it at most.

Where did the number of 200 hours come from?

If it's removed and torn down and inspected (all at the insurance company's expense) and wear items are replaced as necessary (at your expense) and reinstalled (at the ins. co's expense) that engine could fly long past TBO, on-condition. Or take that whole scenario after teardown and pay what's necessary for an full overhaul if it makes you feel better. But having it down for 18 months wouldn't be the option most people would choose.

[Jim Peace]

I have a friend that will be at two years (or more) for a new engine for his Malibu.....

[1964-M20E]

What about a field overhaul other shops?

[bcg]

Where did the number of 200 hours come from?
If it's removed and torn down and inspected (all at the insurance company's expense) and wear items are replaced as necessary (at your expense) and reinstalled (at the ins. co's expense) that engine could fly long past TBO, on-condition. Or take that whole scenario after teardown and pay what's necessary for an full overhaul if it makes you feel better. But having it down for 18 months wouldn't be the option most people would choose.

I agree, if it was mine I'd have it IRANed and fly on.

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[Modify201]

We looked at field overhaul but they would need parts from Lycoming that could end up taking just as long.

[PT20J]

When I was at the Lycoming factory last fall, the biggest hold up was cylinders. They brought head machining in house and are also doing all the barrel machining and nitriding in house and they had start up issues with the automated head milling lines at the same time demand went through the roof (apparently, during Covid a lot of people decided to buy engines and cylinders). So, I would ask a field overhauler what they are going to use for cylinders because there is a long wait for new. There are other options, but you probably want to weigh the pros and cons carefully. Personally, I would not want an overhauled jug that had been through more than one TBO run because aluminum work hardens (the heads expand and contract slightly with each power pulse) and the IO-360 heads do sometimes crack.

The DLC lifters seem to be a good option -- maybe as good as roller tappets -- and they fit an existing crankcase.

One thing that's interesting is that Van's was Lycoming's biggest customer and who knows how Van's bankruptcy will affect orders. Maybe it will help Lycoming catch up if Van's has to cut back significantly.

Skip

[A64Pilot]

5 hours ago, PT20J said:

One thing that's interesting is that Van's was Lycoming's biggest customer and who knows how Van's bankruptcy will affect orders. Maybe it will help Lycoming catch up if Van's has to cut back significantly.

Skip

I think that’s most of the backlog, apparently during the pandemic a whole boat load of people ordered kits

Instead of not selling kits due to being sold out Van’s took the option of outsourcing manufacturing and didn’t do the due diligence that they should have, so a whole bunch of people have kits that they shouldn’t complete. I think however many will be completed and likely sold if they can.

But many won’t and I can only imagine that Lycoming has been getting scads of canceled orders, I just hope Lycoming doesn’t need these orders to survive, just hope Van’s doesn’t take Lycoming with them.

Its normal for engine manufacturers to ship to OEM manufacturers not expecting payment for three months or more, I wonder how many engines Van’s had that weren’t paid for when they filed?

[A64Pilot]

A LOT of nations enforce TBO, I think more do than don’t the US is unusual in not enforcing TBO.

[Jcmtl]

16 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

A LOT of nations enforce TBO, I think more do than don’t the US is unusual in not enforcing TBO.

Canada doesn’t either, and i think that Canada and the US represent the vast majority of GA in the world but could be wrong.  

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, Jcmtl said:

Canada doesn’t either, and i think that Canada and the US represent the vast majority of GA in the world but could be wrong.  

Last I heard, Canada requires engine and propeller overhaul at TBO whether it is Hours In Use or Calendar Time. So does merry old England.

[Jcmtl]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

Last I heard, Canada requires engine and propeller overhaul at TBO whether it is Hours In Use or Calendar Time. So does merry old England.

No just prop, engine can run “on condition”.  

[KSMooniac]

I'm firmly in the field overhaul camp as well.  I chose to do that when my cam failed, and would choose it again.  My plane came with a factory overhauled engine (with new cylinders at that time), and everything except the cam checked out fine.  I had the cylinders overhauled for another TBO run, replaced the cam and added the CentriLube STC mod.  DLC lifters were not available at the time, but I would choose those too.  

Unless you have a bent crank, or cylinders with 4000+ hours on them, I would recommend the same course of action and avoid the Lycoming factory as much as you can.  Many of the internal components can be sourced from Superior if needed, too.  Just pick a good shop, get everything balanced, and hopefully get your cylinders flow-matched as well and you'll end up with a better engine.

[OR75]

if you had a prop strike ... i am guessing you may change the prop ?

is the lead time the same on the IO-390 ? might as well make the best of it  

 

[Modify201]

Prop is trash, new scimitar one is arriving in January. Unsure if lead time is same as 390. Our deposit is already placed for our 360. So there’s really no turning back and hopefully everything will happen sooner.