Voltage regulator removal

[OR75]

1 hour ago, Kerrville said:

Kinda looks like what @Pt20J pictured. Looks like only 3 nuts. Hopefully, if I disconnect it I can fish those other wires up. Looks a lot easier than that filter. 
 

I was wrong on the battery, looks like 5 max 6 years, but sounds like it may be time for a new one of those too. Is the consensus that the Concorde is the way to go?

the original OECO VR (someone posted a picture of it above) had 4 nuts. The replacement from Zeftronics has 3 nuts (2 different models depending on what cannon plug is used (plastic or metal). 

[A64Pilot]

Years ago just after paying $20K+ if memory serves for recovering my Maule I was flying along at night and things were getting dim, looked and the Alt CB was popped, so I reset it and of course the amp meter swung way over to the right.

A couple of weeks later I was washing the airplane and noticed the paint job was bleached out at the battery vent, the wet cell Gill had boiled, acid went out the vent as it’s supposed to and bleached the new paint. Thankfully none got inside of the airplane.

Since then I decided that I would never buy another battery that can leak acid. I’ve never tried it, but Concorde says that even if you knock a hole in one of their batteries that no acid will leak out, not that I’m planning on knocking a hole in one, but I like the no leak part.

I’ve got an old dead one, might try knocking a hole in it to see what happens, maybe shoot it with a .22

[OR75]

1 hour ago, Kerrville said:

I’ve hooked up my fluke and the voltage seems mostly steady at 13.6. I’ve seen it fluctuate with load as low as 13.3 and as high as 13.8, but pretty steady. 
 

is this it here?

not very focused pictured but it looks like an OECO. depending how well the Fluke is connected, the voltage really should not fluctuate and closer to 13.8-14.0

[ArtVandelay]

Since then I decided that I would never buy another battery that can leak acid. I’ve never tried it, but Concorde says that even if you knock a hole in one of their batteries that no acid will leak out, not that I’m planning on knocking a hole in one, but I like the no leak part.

I got a Concorde and 2 years later it started to weaken.
I now use it as a utility battery, last week I put a charger on it and noticed it was leaking at the seam. So far it’s replacement seems to be working fine.

[A64Pilot]

15 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I got a Concorde and 2 years later it started to weaken.
I now use it as a utility battery, last week I put a charger on it and noticed it was leaking at the seam. So far it’s replacement seems to be working fine.

Call Concorde, I bet they will replace it, they aren’t by design supposed to be able to leak, no AGM should be because the mat isn’t saturated with electrolyte.

Lifeline is a Concorde just with a much better manual, assumption is because it doesn’t have to be FAA approved, but open this link and read 1.2 it’s an explanation of the design

https://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6-0101F-Lifeline-Technical-Manual-Final-5-06-19.pdf

[Guest]

There is a brass Philips head screw toward the top of the regulator. Is that an adjustment?

[PT20J]

Something is haywire if the voltage is fluctuating with load. The function of the voltage regulator is to hold the voltage constant with fluctuating load. Also, the original problem was the OVP tripping. That would either be a regulator problem or something shorting the field wire to the battery bus. Since the regulator isn’t holding voltage within .1volts, it sounds like a bad regulator. But, I would check all the wiring to the alternator. A loose field connection could cause fluctuating voltage and it is conceivable that if the field circuit momentarily opened, the regulator could command max field current and if the field connection were remade this might cause a temporary over voltage and trip the OVP. I would check ALL the wiring in the charging circuit before messing with the regulator.

[Guest]

Thanks. The connections at the alternator are good. The voltage fluctuates between 13.2 and as high as 15.8. I’m leaning toward the bad regulator here. Will check the connections at the regulator itself. 

[EricJ]

Even if the connections at the alternator are good, make sure they're clean (no corrosion under them) and also the same for the grounds at the regulator.

[OR75]

15.8 is way too high ... should not go above 14-14.2 

[Guest]

How much should the voltage wander around with this style regulator?  Should it be rock solid or move with in several tenths?.

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, Kerrville said:

How much should the voltage wander around with this style regulator?  Should it be rock solid or move with in several tenths?.

It should be rock solid.

[OR75]

4 hours ago, Kerrville said:

How much should the voltage wander around with this style regulator?  Should it be rock solid or move with in several tenths?.

Maybe 1 or 2/10th at start but in cruise ... steady value 

[Guest]

Flew today after turning down what might be the adjustment screw. Got the overvoltage light shortly after start. Reset per the poh procedure. Flew. Noticed Volta dropped to 12.8 when lowering gear and got flashing under volt indication. Then back to 13.2 steady after the gear was no longer in transit. 

[A64Pilot]

That sounds like a bad battery, the battery shouldn’t drop that low with just a gear load, not if it was fully charged even if the alternator were off line.

However even with a bad battery the alternator should have absorbed the gear load with little voltage sag.

Assume we have a 60 amp alternator and assume you’re running a constant 20 amp load and the gear is another 20. That means that actuating the gear puts a 40 amp load on a 60 amp alternator, so it should hold that load with stable voltage.

I don’t know off hand what our alt size is, but 60 is pretty common, and I don’t know what the gear load is, but am pretty sure it’s less than the circuit breaker so I think my numbers are within reason.

In other words it’s possible you have both a bad voltage regulator and a weak battery, but it’s also possible the battery is just undercharged from a bad regulator too.

Our airplanes are old so it’s likely that depending on where you measure the voltage your reading may be a little low due to resistance in old wiring etc.

However the cigarette lighter is usually a decent place because it has a big wire, cause it’s meant for a big load, and cheap voltage meters can be had that just plug into the lighter and most are pretty accurate, and can be validated by plugging it into your car to see.

[Guest]

Thinking of changing battery to this

https://earthxbatteries.com/product/etx900-tso-35-m20-stc-bundle/?bundle_quantity_6=1&bundle_quantity_8=1&bundle_variation_id_8=13125&bundle_attribute_pa_aircraft-make_8=mooney&bundle_attribute_pa_aircraft-model_8=m20j

 

And put this in

hopefully that solves the problem. 

[MikeOH]

@Kerrville

I know you are frustrated but I would NOT just 'shotgun' with a new battery and VR.

To rule out the battery, fully charge it and perform a capacity test.

It almost seems like there is an issue with the wiring to me.  Is the voltage sense for the meter in the same location as the voltage sense for the VR?  And, are either one in their proper location?  Here is an EXAMPLE of how a mis-wire might be responsible for your problem: if the voltage sense for both the VR and meter were at the starter terminal then the meter voltage would drop when cranking (the resistance of the wire from the battery to the starter) hence the 12.8V, additionally if that same voltage is applied to the VR it will 'think' system voltage is low and command full field current resulting in an overvoltage for the system and trip the OV light.

[Ragsf15e]

I also wouldn’t throw a new battery and vr at it yet.  If you’re seeing 13.2 as a “normal” voltage, that’s not good.  Yes, definitely check it at the cig lighter and see if 13.2 is no kidding legit.  Either way, it’s time for a digital voltmeter and some relatively easy ee… with someone holding the brakes and the engine running, (using alligator clips to keep away from the deadly fan), test voltage at the alternator.  It should be 14.0 plus/minus 0.1.  Then check it say before and after that filter you found.  Then check it at your bus bar.  Find wherever you’re dropping from 14v to 13.2 and fix that connection.  If the alternator is really putting out 13.2, then that might identify a different problem…

[Ragsf15e]

13.2v steady on a 14v system is not right.  Check that with a good voltmeter, but that’s a solid indication of your problem which could be a corroded connection or an issue with your alternator… need to follow the voltage from the alternator to the bus.

[OR75]

4 hours ago, Kerrville said:

Thinking of changing battery to this

https://earthxbatteries.com/product/etx900-tso-35-m20-stc-bundle/?bundle_quantity_6=1&bundle_quantity_8=1&bundle_variation_id_8=13125&bundle_attribute_pa_aircraft-make_8=mooney&bundle_attribute_pa_aircraft-model_8=m20j

 

And put this in

hopefully that solves the problem. 

if you really need to change the VR , make sure you order the right one:

R15300 and R1530B have different cannon plugs. If what you currently have an OECO, the plug may be a steel connector that requires the R1530B. The R15300 has a plastic cannon plug. Your POH should have what VR you have (unless it was changed) or visually check by getting under the panel on the copilot side(remove copilot seat)

[Fly Boomer]

On 11/25/2023 at 12:27 PM, Kerrville said:

I’ve hooked up my fluke and the voltage seems mostly steady at 13.6. I’ve seen it fluctuate with load as low as 13.3 and as high as 13.8, but pretty steady. 

I talked to an engineer at Concorde when I was building my GPU, and he suggested between 28.2 and 28.3 for either the power supply or the voltage regulator.  Half that for a 14-volt system.  Any less, and your battery is likely being drained until it gets down to whatever voltage it sees from the charging system.

[Guest]

Took it to a mechanic once I found one available and paid $500 for him to tell me it’s either the battery or voltage regulator…  changing them both. Will see what happens. 

[Fly Boomer]

23 minutes ago, Kerrville said:

Took it to a mechanic once I found one available and paid $500 for him to tell me it’s either the battery or voltage regulator…  changing them both. Will see what happens. 

Let us know if that fixes your issue.

[Ragsf15e]

5 hours ago, Kerrville said:

Took it to a mechanic once I found one available and paid $500 for him to tell me it’s either the battery or voltage regulator…  changing them both. Will see what happens. 

Hopefully that works… myself, I spent $$ on a new alternator and vr and my problem (low voltage ~13.4v in cruise) persisted until I got a digital voltage meter and troubleshot it myself.  You will find that many GA mechanics are not electrical system experts.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Ragsf15e

[Guest]

It’s all done. Will pick it up Monday and see how it goes. Will post the results.