Engine cleaning

[redbaron1982]

Hey,

I think the answer is "no, there is no problem" but before making a mess, I want to double-check. Is there anything I should protect while cleaning the engine with Varsol (i.e. mineral spirits)? And by this I mean plastics or other materials that could be affected, for sure I know I should keep the solvents off the alternator and other electrical equipment. But apart from that, is there any gasket, sealant, hose, or other plastics that could be affected by Varsol?

[N201MKTurbo]

I’ve been cleaning engines with mineral spirits for 40 years. Never had a problem.

[kortopates]

it’s the recommended way. But also avoid hitting the vacuum pump, if you still have one.
Additionally, be sure to follow-up with re-lubricating all the engine controls and applying mouse-milk to exhaust slip joints and wastegate shaft if you have one.


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[redbaron1982]

5 minutes ago, kortopates said:

it’s the recommended way. But also avoid hitting the vacuum pump, if you still have one.
Additionally, be sure to follow-up with re-lubricating all the engine controls and applying mouse-milk to exhaust slip joints and wastegate shaft if you have one.


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Regarding the vacuum pump, I do have one, and yes I have in mind not to spray over it.

I'm planning on cleaning using some brushes like the ones used to clean the inside of bottles, so it's no that I'm going to be spraying/splashing the Varsol.

[kortopates]

Regarding the vacuum pump, I do have one, and yes I have in mind not to spray over it.
I'm planning on cleaning using some brushes like the ones used to clean the inside of bottles, so it's no that I'm going to be spraying/splashing the Varsol.

Never used brushes. A solvent sprayer attached to an air compressor hose and a can of spirits is very effective and fast without anything more.


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[redbaron1982]

I thought brushes were ok! That's why it's always good to check! Thanks!

[EricJ]

1 minute ago, redbaron1982 said:

I thought brushes were ok! That's why it's always good to check! Thanks!

Brushes are okay, plastic ones, anyway, but you'll probably not even need the brushes unless the gunk is really thick and caked.    A sprayer by itself and maybe some shop towels to get some of the crud usually works.

In my experience getting a suitable sprayer is the hard part.    Many (maybe most) sprayers have o-rings that go to crap in mineral spirits, so finding one that'll last for more than five minutes is a trick.   Even "chemical-tolerant" or other buzzwords aren't a guarantee.    A buddy just buys a new one at Home Despot every time.

[PT20J]

The solvents are highly flammable and it always made me nervous to create an aerosol with an air compressor and spay gun. I know that’s how the shops do it, and I never heard of anyone setting things ablaze, but still…

So, I used to give the engine a good spray with Simple Green and then hose it off really well with water. Never had any issues with that. 

The new engine is so tight that I’ve never washed it in 400 hrs. If I find some oil somewhere, I just hit it with a spray can of brake cleaner. 

Skip

[N201MKTurbo]

You can get all the oil off with just spraying solvent, but if the oil has been there for a while, dirt will mix with the oil making gunk. the solvent will wash away the oil, but leave the dirt behind. I use a chip brush or old paint brush to loosen the dirt after the first spritz with solvent, then before it dries, you can wash away the dirt with the solvent. 

Before it dries on the floor, I wipe it up with blue paper towels, then mop the floor with Dawn mop water.

One more thing, after wiping up all the oily solvent, roll the plane forward or backward so you can clean the oil off the bottom of the nosewheel and the floor under it.

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hey,

I think the answer is "no, there is no problem" but before making a mess, I want to double-check. Is there anything I should protect while cleaning the engine with Varsol (i.e. mineral spirits)? And by this I mean plastics or other materials that could be affected, for sure I know I should keep the solvents off the alternator and other electrical equipment. But apart from that, is there any gasket, sealant, hose, or other plastics that could be affected by Varsol?

 

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

it’s the recommended way. But also avoid hitting the vacuum pump, if you still have one.
Additionally, be sure to follow-up with re-lubricating all the engine controls and applying mouse-milk to exhaust slip joints and wastegate shaft if you have one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

35 minutes ago, PT20J said:

The solvents are highly flammable and it always made me nervous to create an aerosol with an air compressor and spay gun. I know that’s how the shops do it, and I never heard of anyone setting things ablaze, but still…

So, I used to give the engine a good spray with Simple Green and then hose it off really well with water. Never had any issues with that. 

The new engine is so tight that I’ve never washed it in 400 hrs. If I find some oil somewhere, I just hit it with a spray can of brake cleaner. 

Skip

Skip makes a good point.  How dirty is your engine really?  Spot clean where you need it.  And as said above the more aggressive you get, the more you get it places that are counterproductive - rod ends, slip joints.

Also what does your lease say at KSGR? - I bet it is not allowed.  Even with the best plan and prep, you are likely to have a mess on the hangar floor as well as a fire hazard.   I suspect you will need to have it towed to the other side of the field to the "service hangar".

[A64Pilot]

Gunk works fine for me, sprays out of a can, use a brush if it’s really nasty, wash off with water.

Simple green is corrosive on aluminum, if you want to use it there is a special aviation simple green.

Simple green also emulsifies oil so it won’t get caught in an oil separator on the wash rack.

Military the Black Hawk guys learned that Lemon Fresh Joy ate up cannon plugs, so watch what you use on aircraft.

[redbaron1982]

23 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

 

Skip makes a good point.  How dirty is your engine really?  Spot clean where you need it.  And as said above the more aggressive you get, the more you get it places that are counterproductive - rod ends, slip joints.

Also what does your lease say at KSGR? - I bet it is not allowed.  Even with the best plan and prep, you are likely to have a mess on the hangar floor as well as a fire hazard.   I suspect you will need to have it towed to the other side of the field to the "service hangar".

The engine is not super dirty, I should want to remove some patches of oil and also clean near the exhaust port of each cylinder because there are traces of exhaust leaks, and I want to see if those are all or new.

I don't plan on doing a mess in the hangar, I would put something in the floor to get all the drippings. But anyway, as with any maintenance, even inspection sparkplugs, I'd inform the airport authorities and ask for authorization.

As a side topic, I've read somewhere that an airport that receives FAA funds cannot prevent you (as long as you're qualified or working under the supervision of a qualified person) to do maintenance on your airplane in your hangar, as long as it is safe and does not have an impact in the environment.

Edited June 12, 2023 by redbaron1982

[1980Mooney]

2 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Gunk works fine for me, sprays out of a can, use a brush if it’s really nasty, wash off with water.

Simple green is corrosive on aluminum, if you want to use it there is a special aviation simple green.

Simple green also emulsifies oil so it won’t get caught in an oil separator on the wash rack.

Military the Black Hawk guys learned that Lemon Fresh Joy ate up cannon plugs, so watch what you use on aircraft.

There is no wash rack where the OP is based.....   I think that is why he is trying a 100% solvent solution.

[A64Pilot]

8 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

There is no wash rack where the OP is based.....   I think that is why he is trying a 100% solvent solution.

Interesting

 Whenever we went to the National training center, which is in California and I needed to do a compressor flush to recover performance we had to put a Kiddie Pool under the engine and catch all the flush, then let it evaporate and using paper towels clean out the Kiddie Pool and bag the paper towels as hazardous waste.

We couldn’t use the good solvent based compressor flush in California, what we had to use was honestly made by Calgon and seemed like dish soap, and didn’t work worth a flip.

But the Kiddie pool worked well and was cheap, it might be worth having here if he’s doing it in a hangar to keep the floor clean

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

The solvents are highly flammable and it always made me nervous to create an aerosol with an air compressor and spay gun. I know that’s how the shops do it, and I never heard of anyone setting things ablaze, but still…

So, I used to give the engine a good spray with Simple Green and then hose it off really well with water. Never had any issues with that. 

The new engine is so tight that I’ve never washed it in 400 hrs. If I find some oil somewhere, I just hit it with a spray can of brake cleaner. 

Skip

The good hand pump sprayers are all-metal, and larger and more expensive than I want to deal with.    After much experimentation I found something like this (although I'm not sure if this one or something else like it), that seems to hold up to mineral spirits.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C4NQSQ6

A buddy just uses a new one of these each time he goes to clean his engine.   If you're quick it'll last long enough to do the job.   

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-32-oz-Heavy-Duty-Chemical-Resistant-Pro-Spray-Bottle-3-Pack-3CR32/313883871

 

 

[1980Mooney]

20 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Interesting

 Whenever we went to the National training center, which is in California and I needed to do a compressor flush to recover performance we had to put a Kiddie Pool under the engine and catch all the flush, then let it evaporate and using paper towels clean out the Kiddie Pool and bag the paper towels as hazardous waste.

We couldn’t use the good solvent based compressor flush in California, what we had to use was honestly made by Calgon and seemed like dish soap, and didn’t work worth a flip.

But the Kiddie pool worked well and was cheap, it might be worth having here if he’s doing it in a hangar to keep the floor clean

About 20 years ago KSGR had a wash rack.  But Texas started clamping down on discharge of waste water contaminated with hydrocarbons (yes you read that right, TEXAS, not some "liberal state" on the left coast that many here love to bash....).  When KSGR built the new (well current - now almost 20 year old) hangars they eliminated the wash rack.  The City/KSGR did not want to spend the money for a separator/clarifier for the waste water.  So they told tenants to hire cleaning services that use "dry" cleaning techniques, use dry cleaners themselves or fly a dirty plane.

[A64Pilot]

Separators are easy, not even much money, every wash rack the Army had one.

Funny thing was I never saw one being emptied, I think you just had to have the thing, not empty it I guess.

Environmental laws can be somewhat interesting, for instance any hydrocarbon discharge that causes a sheen on the water is a Federal offense punishable by a rather large fine.

We were very cognizant of that as even a few drops of fuel when refueling could cause a large sheen and some would go nuts. Dawn dishwashing liquid emulsifies it and the sheen instantly disappears, but there is some kind of law against that too.

Every time it rained the entire Marina would be covered by a sheen, the source of that apparent extreme pollution was the parking lot where cars leaked oil and the parking lot drained into the Marina basin, it was the oil from the asphalt, but that was OK.

Wash your dishes and get a little salad oil in the water, your busted.

https://www.epa.gov/oil-spills-prevention-and-preparedness-regulations/overview-discharge-oil-regulation-sheen-rule

I’m all for clean water etc., but surely some common sense should play into the writing of these laws, like what type of oil and quantity.

[1980Mooney]

52 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

The engine is not super dirty, I should want to remove some patches of oil and also clean near the exhaust port of each cylinder because there are traces of exhaust leaks, and I want to see if those are all or new.

I don't plan on doing a mess in the hangar, I would put something in the floor to get all the drippings. But anyway, as with any maintenance, even inspection sparkplugs, I'd inform the airport authorities and ask for authorization.

As a side topic, I've read somewhere that an airport that receives FAA funds cannot prevent you (as long as you're qualified or working under the supervision of a qualified person) to do maintenance on your airplane in your hangar, as long as it is safe and does not have an impact in the environment.

"I'd inform the airport authorities and ask for authorization." And - "as long as it is safe and does not have an impact in the environment". 

I think you just provided the response for the City/Airport.   Spraying flammable hydrocarbons is inherently dangerous and harmful to the environment

My Lease is very old but it specifically prohibits those activities as well as painting.  

KSGR received funding from the State in 2016 - $12 mil from TxDOT.  Texas got a pot of money from the Federal Gov.t and doled it out to airports as the State saw fit.  The key is that it State money at that point and not Federal. Think of it as "money laundering".....They are not on the current IAP Grant list. 

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/AIP-2022_FullList.pdf

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/Sugar-Land-airport-receives-FAA-grant-to-improve-9447148.php

https://www.sugarlandtx.gov/1073/Airport

Maybe you are right but I am skeptical.  Historically they have made it clear that they want tenants to use the free maintenance hangar located on the other side of the runway by the Control Tower.

[N201MKTurbo]

I'm more of an ask for forgiveness than permission kind of guy.

Luckily, our airport manager is an airplane owner who likes to work on his own airplanes.

[Pinecone]

14 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Environmental laws can be somewhat interesting, for instance any hydrocarbon discharge that causes a sheen on the water is a Federal offense punishable by a rather large fine.

I did some work for Cargill Salt many years ago.  It was their warehouse where they stored and shipped things like bagged salt for softeners, salt lick for cattle, etc.   While touring the facility, I noticed a 6 - 8 inch high curb around the entire paved lot.  So I asked.  The guy smiled and took me to the low corner.

There was a pond there.  He said the MD environmental group required that they catch the rain runoff, because it was contaminated with salt.  Before they could discharge the pond, they had to test the salinity, and if it was too high, they used a fire hose to add water to dilute it.

Two stupid things.

1)  The discharge is into the Chesapeake Bay.  The bay is an estuary, that means it is SALTY.  And the salt content varies over the year based on how much water is coming down the Susquehanna River.  And how much do you think that amount of pond water is going to affect the WHOLE BAY?

2)  Even funnier.  Their major client for salt?  MD DOT, for spreading all over the roads in the winter without any controls.  And ALL the watershed from MD goes into the bay. 

[1980Mooney]

@redbaron1982.  The ears of the KSGR Airport Managment must have been burning - They just sent out a new T-Hangar Handbook with rules and regulations yesterday. You should have an email from them. 

Technically you cannot do any of the things that you are considering.  You cannot change your oil or put it up on jacks.(they consider that "major" work).  They want you to use the " - Work that is major, such as changing oil or replacing a door, is conducted at the Tenant Maintenance Hangar, and not inside the T-Hangar".  

They are happy to let you work "under the supervision of a licensed mechanic" as long as you do it in the "Tenant Maintenance Hangar" which is on the other side of the airport and not easy to get to.

"MAINTENANCE

No maintenance or hazardous activities are to be conducted inside a T-Hangar.

Small maintenance items are permitted in the T-Hangar, as long as they are minor

in nature and are required to get the aircraft flying. Some examples are listed

below:

·        Adding oil

·        Adding other fluids

·        Changing a light bulb

Major maintenance or repairs are not permitted within the T-Hangar Facilities or

the T-Hangars themselves. Some examples are listed below:

·        Oil change

·        Avionics panel swap out

·        Propeller Replacement

·        Door Replacement

·        Engine Overhaul

·        Landing Gear maintenance or replacement

·        The use of aircraft jacks"

 

[Fly Boomer]

18 hours ago, EricJ said:

The good hand pump sprayers are all-metal, and larger and more expensive than I want to deal with.    After much experimentation I found something like this (although I'm not sure if this one or something else like it), that seems to hold up to mineral spirits.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C4NQSQ6

A buddy just uses a new one of these each time he goes to clean his engine.   If you're quick it'll last long enough to do the job.   

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Harris-32-oz-Heavy-Duty-Chemical-Resistant-Pro-Spray-Bottle-3-Pack-3CR32/313883871

 

 

Q & A section answer from mfg. says “This sprayer is not tolerant of any solvent. Thank you. P.F. Harris”

[Pinecone]

24 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Q & A section answer from mfg. says “This sprayer is not tolerant of any solvent. Thank you. P.F. Harris”

And remember, if the device is not tolerant of the solvent used, you are dissolving the unit and spraying that dissolved plastic onto your engine.

[redbaron1982]

4 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

@redbaron1982.  The ears of the KSGR Airport Managment must have been burning - They just sent out a new T-Hangar Handbook with rules and regulations yesterday. You should have an email from them. 

Technically you cannot do any of the things that you are considering.  You cannot change your oil or put it up on jacks.(they consider that "major" work).  They want you to use the " - Work that is major, such as changing oil or replacing a door, is conducted at the Tenant Maintenance Hangar, and not inside the T-Hangar".  

They are happy to let you work "under the supervision of a licensed mechanic" as long as you do it in the "Tenant Maintenance Hangar" which is on the other side of the airport and not easy to get to.

"MAINTENANCE

No maintenance or hazardous activities are to be conducted inside a T-Hangar.

Small maintenance items are permitted in the T-Hangar, as long as they are minor

in nature and are required to get the aircraft flying. Some examples are listed

below:

·        Adding oil

·        Adding other fluids

·        Changing a light bulb

Major maintenance or repairs are not permitted within the T-Hangar Facilities or

the T-Hangars themselves. Some examples are listed below:

·        Oil change

·        Avionics panel swap out

·        Propeller Replacement

·        Door Replacement

·        Engine Overhaul

·        Landing Gear maintenance or replacement

·        The use of aircraft jacks"

 

Yeah, I saw that. I think I will talk to them, just to find out if they are reasonable or not. 

For me doesn't make sense that you cannot change the oil in your hangar or that they qualify that as major repair when is something the owner can do without supervision. 

[EricJ]

5 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Yeah, I saw that. I think I will talk to them, just to find out if they are reasonable or not. 

For me doesn't make sense that you cannot change the oil in your hangar or that they qualify that as major repair when is something the owner can do without supervision. 

Ask if you can get an annual inspection done in your hangar.  An annual includes cleaning the engine, by regulation, and the FAA guidance for cleaning the engine has always been to use Varsol, aka Stoddard Solvent, aka mineral spirits.   So if they say you can do an annual, it'll include cleaning the engine, and the rest of the airplane as well.