WAAS upgrade - hypothetically of course

[BravoWhiskey]

I have a non-WAAS G1000 in my M20M.  Aside from that I have everything any pilot could really want in an aircraft.  I don’t feel I need WAAS since we don’t have LPV at my home field, and Trenton has ILS.  And the minimums for LPV and ILS are below my personal minimums anyway.  The G1000 has a nice Raim prediction function and in the Northeast I don’t think I have run into any outages.  So I’m good with what I got and I don’t intend on selling to find a different aircraft.

But, hypothetically, if I were to have the ability to upgrade to WAAS would it be truly worth the investment now?  Or do I put some faith and patience into the potential Nxi upgrade (although I am more interested in MGTOW upgrade).  

All wants… no needs.

[GeeBee]

In 2019 I paid 17K for WAAS. The problem now is not price, but can you find the hardware.

 

[kortopates]

WAAS is far far more than minimums. Adding vertical nav in the form of VNAV and Advisory Glide Path is a huge benefit. There is so much more like Visual Approach guidance to every runway in the US, many with an advisory glide path when obstructions allow*. Only touching the tip of the iceberg here, not to mention it offers real value to your Mooney you’ll get back when you sell - if you can find it.

Edit: *The Visual approach to every runway is Nxi upgrade currently only available in the U & V Mooneys,  As well Garmin GTN Navigators

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited September 10, 2022 by kortopates

[201Steve]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

WAAS is far far more than minimums. Adding vertical nav in the form of VNAV and Advisory Glide Path is a huge benefit.

I’ve never thought about it like that, since I have WAAS and therefore don’t miss out on it, but to know in an emergency situation that I can have a “localizer” and “glide slope” to nearly every single runway I fly over, with a couple of brief button pushes, is quite comforting. 

[carusoam]

A traveling machine without WAAS…. Is getting less useful as time goes on….

Check in with the folks at GMax to get on their list to obtain the W devices that are specific to the G1000…

KTTN is also my plan B… and there are a lot of Uber rides available for the 17amus….

Tough choice…

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

23 hours ago, BravoWhiskey said:

I have a non-WAAS G1000 in my M20M.  Aside from that I have everything any pilot could really want in an aircraft.  I don’t feel I need WAAS since we don’t have LPV at my home field, and Trenton has ILS.  And the minimums for LPV and ILS are below my personal minimums anyway.  The G1000 has a nice Raim prediction function and in the Northeast I don’t think I have run into any outages.  So I’m good with what I got and I don’t intend on selling to find a different aircraft.

But, hypothetically, if I were to have the ability to upgrade to WAAS would it be truly worth the investment now?  Or do I put some faith and patience into the potential Nxi upgrade (although I am more interested in MGTOW upgrade).  

All wants… no needs.

You are not saving any money by not having it. As the GIA63W WAAS  boxes get more scarce they go up in price. Someday when you sell it the market will value it without WAAS. So when you sell it you "pay" for it anyway and you never got to enjoy any of the benefits from it. Better to talk to the 3 or 4 people that do this and get on their list for when WAAS boxes become available. Paul Maxwell and Brian Kendrick are two of the people who do these conversions. There may be a couple more across the country.

[BravoWhiskey]

Not about saving money really.   I am trying to decide whether or not to do the Legacy upgrade or wait for the possible Nxi upgrade. What I don’t want to do is spend x today only to spend y again next year… again all hypothetical 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, BravoWhiskey said:

What I don’t want to do is spend x today only to spend y again next year… 

Have you looked at whether replacing the G1000 with something else is a viable option?

I love flying a G1000 but I've seen too many posts about the problem of upgrades to an OEM system which requires Garmin and aircraft manufacturer concurrence for even things as simple as software updates to be a big fan. Much rather have a G3X or G600 TXI or even Aspen or Dynon tied to my navigator of choice.

[BravoWhiskey]

I have a GX which from what I understand can’t be changed from the G1000.  At least not yet.

[GeeBee]

11 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

 

Have you looked at whether replacing the G1000 with something else is a viable option?

I love flying a G1000 but I've seen too many posts about the problem of upgrades to an OEM system which requires Garmin and aircraft manufacturer concurrence for even things as simple as software updates to be a big fan. Much rather have a G3X or G600 TXI or even Aspen or Dynon tied to my navigator of choice.

That is the problem. You can't. The G1000 is part of the TCDS for the airplane. It has to be there. Until the TCDS is modified or Mooney comes up with a solution, you're stuck. Mooney said they are looking at either a NXi upgrade or creating a modification that will allow other units such as a G3x system to be used.

A couple of points here. One even with WAAS a legacy G1000 will not give GS to the runway for a visual approach unless it is a charted visual in the data base.  Second the primary reason I went WAAS so I could can predicate both destination and alternate on GPS approaches which you cannot do with a non-WAAS airplane. For where I fly that comes in handy. Finally if given the choice of an LPV or ILS I usually take the LPV because it is one less button to push (CDI) and most ILS have scallops in the LOC and GS, small but perceptible, why I don't know I am not that smart. But, both you and the A/P will find it easier to trim up on an LPV and stay there.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, BravoWhiskey said:

I have a GX which from what I understand can’t be changed from the G1000.  At least not yet.

It would require an STC to remove the G1000 and install something else, not impossible.

[BravoWhiskey]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

It would require an STC to remove the G100 and install something else, not impossible.

How does one get this STC?  I don’t know what it takes to get the STC done but I do hope Mooney has one available for me one day. Even if I don’t have the upgrade done, it would at least open an avenue for us Non WAAS g1000 folks.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, BravoWhiskey said:

How does one get this STC?  I don’t know what it takes to get the STC done but I do hope Mooney has one available for me one day. Even if I don’t have the upgrade done, it would at least open an avenue for us Non WAAS g1000 folks.

Normally the avionic supplier, say Dynon gets the STC approval. Kind of daunting for an owner to tackle something on this scale.

[BravoWhiskey]

So then Garmin should have no problem getting the STC for the Nxi.  They claim they are waiting on Mooney.  

[GeeBee]

Because Mooney owes Garmin money. Don't hold your breath until that is settled.

 

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

That is the problem. You can't. The G1000 is part of the TCDS for the airplane. It has to be there. Until the TCDS is modified or Mooney comes up with a solution, you're stuck. Mooney said they are looking at either a NXi upgrade or creating a modification that will allow other units such as a G3x system to be used.

 

...which makes it a huge part of the problem. 

Diamond handled things a little differently. Their G1000 models don't even have a different POH - the G1000 installation is an STC with its own AFMS. They still left their early G1000 customers hanging but at least the teardown option exists. 

[kortopates]

I can't imagine an STC solution which would be cheaper than the WAAS upgrade option Mooney offered. Given so many Mooney owners didn't bite then, where is the incentive to come up with another, likely more expensive, solution. Greater chance for sales in providing a Nxi upgrade IMO.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

I can't imagine an STC solution which would be cheaper than the WAAS upgrade option Mooney offered. Given so many Mooney owners didn't bite then, where is the incentive to come up with another, likely more expensive, solution. Greater chance for sales in providing a Nxi upgrade IMO.

I think that depends on a few things. One might be whether you are looking short term or long. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, GeeBee said:

That is the problem. You can't. The G1000 is part of the TCDS for the airplane. It has to be there. Until the TCDS is modified or Mooney comes up with a solution, you're stuck. Mooney said they are looking at either a NXi upgrade or creating a modification that will allow other units such as a G3x system to be used.

A couple of points here. One even with WAAS a legacy G1000 will not give GS to the runway for a visual approach unless it is a charted visual in the data base.  Second the primary reason I went WAAS so I could can predicate both destination and alternate on GPS approaches which you cannot do with a non-WAAS airplane. For where I fly that comes in handy. Finally if given the choice of an LPV or ILS I usually take the LPV because it is one less button to push (CDI) and most ILS have scallops in the LOC and GS, small but perceptible, why I don't know I am not that smart. But, both you and the A/P will find it easier to trim up on an LPV and stay there.

A little digging around.  I can’t find any mention of G1000 on the Mooney TCDS.  But I did find an STC for M and R models.

[GeeBee]

Note 22 of the TCDS restricts you and if you read the AML for Garmin flight decks such as the G3X, Mooney's with G1000 are not approved for that reason.

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:00 AM, BravoWhiskey said:

Not about saving money really.   I am trying to decide whether or not to do the Legacy upgrade or wait for the possible Nxi upgrade. What I don’t want to do is spend x today only to spend y again next year… again all hypothetical 

On other airframes that have G1000s, to go to the Nxi once it's approved the GIA units need to be WAAS units. You can't go from a non-waas to NXi. (So, in other words if you don't spend x today, you won't be able to upgrade to y in the future.)

"Garmin is pleased to announce that the G1000 NXi integrated flight deck, successor to the ever-popular G1000® flight deck, is coming soon to the Garmin dealer network as a retrofit for WAAS-capable G1000 equipped 172 R/S,(T) 182T, (T) 206H, G36 and G58 aircraft."

(https://sarasotaavionics.com/whats-new-in-avionics/garmin-g1000-nxi-upgrade)

[BravoWhiskey]

Right, that’s because the nxi wont work with GIA63.  It only works with GIA63W and GIA64.  At least that’s my understanding.

Edited September 12, 2022 by BravoWhiskey

[Browncbr1]

I flew a G58 with the NXi upgrade.   The boot and everything else is instant.   Screens are perfect.  I never flew the straight g1000, so not sure what I can compare the nxi to.  

[LANCECASPER]

12 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

I flew a G58 with the NXi upgrade.   The boot and everything else is instant.   Screens are perfect.  I never flew the straight g1000, so not sure what I can compare the nxi to.  

I witnessed a power-up of an NXi Ultra Mooney that was at the Factory Service Center in Kerrville. That was the amazing part - the boot up seemed like the blink of an eye. The screens were nicer also and the ability to use the FS510 to transfer flight plans would be nice. It did seem a little weird climbing up on the left wing to get in though.