Expert annual in the Midwest - where do you go?

[toto]

My J is normally maintained by a shop on the field that doesn’t do a lot of Mooney work. I’ve been thinking for a while that I would take it to Don Maxwell for an annual once every so often, just to have a real Mooney expert look it over - and Maxwell has a very loyal following here on MS. 

Jonny’s post today has me thinking whether it’s better to go to the factory than to Maxwell for an occasional expert annual. I certainly don’t want to start any arguments here, just curious what others would do —- if you’ve never had an annual at either place, would you go to Maxwell, to the factory, or to a third option I haven’t considered?

Midwest or south central ideally. Maxwell is about a two-hour flight for me, and he’s the closest out-of-town MSC.

(Note that there is an MSC in my immediate area that I have no experience with - so an occasional annual at a local MSC is also an option.)

[glenn reynolds]

Maxwell is good. The shop in Wilmer mn is good. Jason at Jed-aire aviation is excellent. I would would return to any of these three. 

[carusoam]

Nobody Better than DMax and family!

Nobody more committed to the customer then Jonny!

Tough choice…

Ask Jonny to sign your log book… next to the A&P who does the work…. (Collectors item!). 
 

Best regards,

-a-

[glenn reynolds]

It won't come as a surprise that I have found different service centers have different skill sets.  I usually interview the shop and ask about turn around times (A shocking range of "normal" annual turn around times!)  I usually ask questions which allow the prospective shop to show if they are a: "leave the keys and a $5k deposit check on the counter and we will call you" (this is an actual quote from a mooney service center) to: "How is the plane flying? What have you tried to fix the issue?  Who has already looked at it and what did they find?  etc.  As an example I had a cowling issue which was looked at by three mooney service centers (ok actually only two, the third guy gave me the "leave the keys..." response and so I decline his service).  Maxwell nailed the problem by swapping my cowling with another cowling while we were talking and they took great pride in showing me that they could figure it out.  I do like changing shops as gets a different perspective and I end up learning more about the plane.  One technique that works for me is to fly to the east coast to visit family and have an annual done while I'm there.  It gives me a perfect excuse to go to the airport everyday, I get a fresh set of eyes on the plane and my family thinks I flew out to visit THEM!  

[Larry]

I have flown to TX from So CA several times for annuals while my wife and I waited in the local area at a motel.  My experiences have been varied, from bust their tail to get my annual completed, to advising me after they finished that they don't like to have the customer waiting as it's too much pressure.  By the way, the one that said it was too much pressure, I stopped by twice while the annual was being completed, stayed less than 5 min, just to check in.

[1980Mooney]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:42 PM, toto said:

My J is normally maintained by a shop on the field that doesn’t do a lot of Mooney work. I’ve been thinking for a while that I would take it to Don Maxwell for an annual once every so often, just to have a real Mooney expert look it over - and Maxwell has a very loyal following here on MS. 

Jonny’s post today has me thinking whether it’s better to go to the factory than to Maxwell for an occasional expert annual. I certainly don’t want to start any arguments here, just curious what others would do —- if you’ve never had an annual at either place, would you go to Maxwell, to the factory, or to a third option I haven’t considered?

Midwest or south central ideally. Maxwell is about a two-hour flight for me, and he’s the closest out-of-town MSC.

(Note that there is an MSC in my immediate area that I have no experience with - so an occasional annual at a local MSC is also an option.)

It sounds like you want another set of eyes on your plane which is not a bad idea.  Perhaps you are considering it because you suspect that there might be some things that have been overlooked or beyond the capability of your longtime well-meaning A&P in the past.  Regardless, a new A&P may have a slightly different perspective regarding what is acceptable.  And there is a good chance the new A&P may come up with a list of items that he considers to be unairworthy or a discrepancy - perhaps longer than you are expecting.

Now you maybe you will be lucky and the annual is just the usual swing the gear, grease the zerks, lubricate the bearings, change the oil and filters, look everything over kind of annual that takes 25 hours.  Then again maybe there are some surprises - and the supply chain may create delays.  There are current topics here about someone grounded while trying to source a Mooney specific connecting bearing, cracked backplates on spinners that are not in supply, waiting for batteries, etc.  Generally overhauling, welding, etc your existing parts is most cost effective but takes the most time.  You may or may not want to be involved with the A&P on each step.  

But if you want to be involved and there are issues (surprises) then this is exactly why you do not want to have this annual done hundreds of miles away.  A few day annual may turn into a few weeks.  It is a roll of the dice.

I would think your locally based MSC would be the best option.

Here is the poster child for the worst possible outcome for an annual done far from your home base.

Opinion: Savvy Maintenance - AOPA

Edited April 26, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[toto]

3 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

It sounds like you want another set of eyes on your plane which is not a bad idea.  Perhaps you are considering it because you suspect that there might be some things that have been overlooked or beyond the capability of your longtime well-meaning A&P in the past.  Regardless, a new A&P may have a slightly different perspective regarding what is acceptable.  And there is a good chance the new A&P may come up with a list of items that he considers to be unairworthy or a discrepancy - perhaps longer than you are expecting.

Now you maybe you will be lucky and the annual is just the usual swing the gear, grease the zerks, lubricate the bearings, change the oil and filters, look everything over kind of annual that takes 25 hours.  Then again maybe there are some surprises - and the supply chain may create delays.  There are current topics here about someone grounded while trying to source a Mooney specific connecting bearing, cracked backplates on spinners that are not in supply, waiting for batteries, etc.  Generally overhauling, welding, etc your existing parts is most cost effective but takes the most time.  You may or may not want to be involved with the A&P on each step.  

But if you want to be involved and there are issues (surprises) then this is exactly why you do not want to have this annual done hundreds of miles away.  A few day annual may turn into a few weeks.  It is a roll of the dice.

I would think your locally based MSC would be the best option.

This is an interesting perspective, thank you.  I certainly hope that my annuals are comprehensive now, and I'm mostly interested in things that a Mooney expert would know to look for - and a non-expert might miss.  But it's a fair point that being hundreds of miles away from a new shop means it's going to be hard to visit any time they find a "surprise."

[carusoam]

2 minutes ago, toto said:

This is an interesting perspective, thank you.  I certainly hope that my annuals are comprehensive now, and I'm mostly interested in things that a Mooney expert would know to look for - and a non-expert might miss.  But it's a fair point that being hundreds of miles away from a new shop means it's going to be hard to visit any time they find a "surprise."

probably good to get a good detailed MSer pirep about the shop… and the people…. And their record…

Just to see if they match your expectations… and style…

 

+1 for getting another set of eyes on the machine…

Much easier when the plane is extra clean, relatively new, and well kept….

Much more difficult when the plane is relatively old, lives outside, and has decades old wear issues coming up for replacement…

 

Simple supply chain issues can get in the way of a good plan…

In other words… my old M20C was highly dependent on seeing the same doctor for each physical…  my M20R, not so much… 

Best regards,

-a-

[toto]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

probably good to get a good detailed MSer pirep about the shop… and the people…. And their record…

 

Lots written here about Maxwell.  The factory service center is (I think) a pretty new option, but I've been watching the various threads with a lot of interest and would certainly welcome pireps if anyone has one.  My local MSC has had no MS customers as far as I know - I've asked about them in a dedicated thread, with no takers

[carusoam]

My M20R has gone to Maxwell… for its first annual with me… 
 

She has also gone to the NJ MSC… with a good recommendation… but the key manager has to be there…

My third resource is more local… good with Mooneys, but not Mooney specific…

Best regards,

-a-

[T. Peterson]

On 4/20/2022 at 10:42 PM, toto said:

My J is normally maintained by a shop on the field that doesn’t do a lot of Mooney work. I’ve been thinking for a while that I would take it to Don Maxwell for an annual once every so often, just to have a real Mooney expert look it over - and Maxwell has a very loyal following here on MS. 

Jonny’s post today has me thinking whether it’s better to go to the factory than to Maxwell for an occasional expert annual. I certainly don’t want to start any arguments here, just curious what others would do —- if you’ve never had an annual at either place, would you go to Maxwell, to the factory, or to a third option I haven’t considered?

Midwest or south central ideally. Maxwell is about a two-hour flight for me, and he’s the closest out-of-town MSC.

(Note that there is an MSC in my immediate area that I have no experience with - so an occasional annual at a local MSC is also an option.)

Call both and get a quote for the basic annual. That might help you decide.

Torrey

[Guest]

I love my MSC so much that I take my Piper to them for all of its Annual Inspections.  I wouldn’t take it anywhere else.

Clarence

[Gone]

Maybe it is just me, but competence beats both low cost and obsequiousness any day of the week.  I don’t understand some of these arguments. 
Why not use only mechanics that eat their own cooking?   Lives are at stake here.  
Blow a cylinder in a car and it can be convinced to roll to the shoulder of the road.  Non event.
Have that happen in a Mooney at 7000’ and the excitement is just starting. 

What am I missing?

[M20F]

I used Mike Connell at KDEH for my last annual after several years of using Darryl Jansen at KFEP who sadly passed.  He is a very solid old school mechanic who among other things rebuilt award winning Stearman and a DC3.  The first two annuals I did were with Maxwell which got things tight and right. 

Don is for sure a legend and the most knowledgeable Mooney guy out there.  He did good by me but it’s a long way to go every year and if things are right on the plane not a tremendous amount he can do beyond another great mechanic. 

[mike_elliott]

12 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I love my MSC so much that I take my Piper to them for all of its Annual Inspections.  I wouldn’t take it anywhere else.

Clarence

You should just leave it with them Clarence

[Guest]

8 hours ago, M20F said:

I used Mike Connell at KDEH for my last annual after several years of using Darryl Jansen at KFEP who sadly passed.  He is a very solid old school mechanic who among other things rebuilt award winning Stearman and a DC3.  The first two annuals I did were with Maxwell which got things tight and right. 

Don is for sure a legend and the most knowledgeable Mooney guy out there.  He did good by me but it’s a long way to go every year and if things are right on the plane not a tremendous amount he can do beyond another great mechanic. 

Too bad he doesn’t share any of his vast knowledge with us mere mortals.  It seems that unless there’s money in it for him he’s a ghost.

Clarence
 

 

 

[M20F]

57 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Too bad he doesn’t share any of his vast knowledge with us mere mortals.  It seems that unless there’s money in it for him he’s a ghost.

Clarence
 

 

 

The guy has every Mooney owner on the face of the planet trying to talk to him.  He runs a business and has a life too.  He is/was exceptionally active on the MAPA mailing list. 

[Danb]

Prior to my first visit with DMAX I called and asked a few questions a few times. He spent more than ample time trying to help me out. Very nice people.

I’ve gone to Max a few times, H Weber quite a few times who also provided quite a few answers to dumb questions . 
Both are great in my opinion, I’ll be going back Max again this year, I’ve turned the annual into a nice vacation which my other half enjoys.

Best bet is ask around like your doing and go with it.

BTW DMAX is over 1000 miles away from me 

[Brandt]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:33 PM, toto said:

Lots written here about Maxwell.  The factory service center is (I think) a pretty new option, but I've been watching the various threads with a lot of interest and would certainly welcome pireps if anyone has one.  My local MSC has had no MS customers as far as I know - I've asked about them in a dedicated thread, with no takers

I have used Mooney factory service for multiple maintenance items, upgrades and a recent annual within the last year. They were outstanding. 

[Yetti]

It's an inspection.   Which makes it a really through walk around along with a compression test.   There is some competence of work but other than that it is an inspection.  I've heard of competence of work issues (spark plugs blowing out) from the shop in Tyler.   So at the end of the day get a good relationship with a competent mechanic.  Like Doc said.