Insight G3 vs JPI 700

[Joshua Blackh4t]

So I want to add engine monitoring and most importantly fuel flow to my M20E

I only need the basic info, and I was even thinking of just getting a jpi450, but the full monitor seems worth it.

So its between the JPI 700 and the Insight.

JPI is tried and proven, but I like the built in vibration sensor and prop balancer. I fly rough outback strips and stone chips are unavoidable. If I could add washers to the spinner to balance it reguarly, it would be better for everything.

Has anyone tried the G3? Reviews on Spruce are not very confidence inspiring.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I currently have a JPI EDM 800 which is a 700 but with more options to monitor additional stuff.  I like it but have an intention to replace it with a Garmin GI 275 engine monitor sometime in the future.  One of the main reasons is it's a primary instrument and does everything in one 3 and 1/8 inch hole.  Older Mooney's have very limited panel space and it pays I think to economize panel space.  You may consider doing the engine monitor upgrade once with a primary instrument rather than over an over again as old instruments fail.  ie I had to replace a tach for 1500 dollars and mess with a old oil temp sender just recently because the JPI 800 is not primary even though it monitors rpm and oil temp.   I bought my plane with the 800 so that choice wasn't mine but given the option now I would choose to do a primary instrument for sure.  

I don't have any experience with the G3 instrument so can't comment on that, I flew a rental arrow a while back that had an insight engine monitor but at the time payed very little attention to it.  

Good luck!  

[MikeOH]

I have an Insight G3 (came with the plane) and really like it for its data logging (easy upload from the SD to Savvy for analysis) and setting LOP (CHT/EGT).  Beyond that, I don't pay much attention to it as I have a EI FP-5L for fuel management (which I also really like for its simplicity).

I've never really used the vibration/acceleration features.  Nor, do I have any experience with any other engine monitor but I prefer the G3's color display and the use of color to show CHT vs. EGT.  I think the JPI700 is just older tech gas plasma monochrome display.

Not sure of the price difference, but I suspect most of the cost is in the install...there're a lot of wires to run and sensors to install.

Good luck!

[ZuluZulu]

Skip the 700 (and the color screen upgrade 730), get at least the 830.  I bought my plane with a 730 already installed.  It showed EGT/CHT but not MAP or RPM.  This was an issue for troubleshooting since I only had partial data to look at.  At first annual, I upgraded it to an 830.  It's been much better and more reassuring having the more capable engine monitor to supplement the primary gauges.  Like others are saying, do it once, do it right.  (I'm now regretting not going all the way to a 900, but my excuse is I haven't decided between Garmin's G3X EIS or the 900 for the final stage upgrade yet).

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Thanks for the advice.

Makes sense, now I'm not sure if I should go straight to a jpi 900 or Garmin 275 and be done with it. Having said that, in REAL terms, the only thing that will actually change my flying is the fuel flow. Maybe the EGTs would let me play with LOP, but ROP is generally where I would be at 9500ft anyway, so really its only the fuel flow that will let me make longer legs with more confidence and less stops.

So now the options are just a JPI 450 fuel flow, or any of the full primary monitors.

Aircraft are such fun.

 

 

[FredG]

On 12/22/2021 at 10:13 PM, ZuluZulu said:

I haven't decided between Garmin's G3X EIS or the 900 for the final stage upgrade yet).

Hi there,

would the G3X act as primary and all the old stuff could be removed? And would that be the 7” one?

thx

F.

[NotarPilot]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:39 AM, Joshua Blackh4t said:

So I want to add engine monitoring and most importantly fuel flow to my M20E

I only need the basic info, and I was even thinking of just getting a jpi450, but the full monitor seems worth it.

So its between the JPI 700 and the Insight.

JPI is tried and proven, but I like the built in vibration sensor and prop balancer. I fly rough outback strips and stone chips are unavoidable. If I could add washers to the spinner to balance it reguarly, it would be better for everything.

Has anyone tried the G3? Reviews on Spruce are not very confidence inspiring.

I’ve had a G3 in my plane since 2012 and it’s been fairly reliable. I remember a few issues early on but support from Insight was pretty good, especially while under warranty. It’s been several years since I had any issues with it. Last issue was a bad probe on the EGT which was easily fixed.

One of the things I like best about the G3 is it gives you a lot of information in a compact display. I can fuel up my tanks and set it to 64 gallons. The G3 will tell me what my endurance is based on the gallons per minute I’m burning. I also really love how when you go from ROP to LOP it will peak out at a particular EGT temp and as you go on the lean side it tells you how many degrees you are from peak EGT. You can see in this from the photo where there are white boxes above each EGT bar with a value that says “L” first. RPM reads zero because the A&P who installed it didn’t hook up it up to the tach. 
 

My J is in the shop getting a Dynon Skyview HDX and I’ll be selling my G3 and probes once I get everything back, hopefully next week.

 

[ArtVandelay]

One of the things I like best about the G3 is it gives you a lot of information in a compact display. I can fuel up my tanks and set it to 64 gallons. The G3 will tell me what my endurance is based on the gallons per minute I’m burning. I also really love how when you go from ROP to LOP it will peak out at a particular EGT temp and as you go on the lean side it tells you how many degrees you are from peak EGT. You can see in this from the photo where there are white boxes above each EGT bar with a value that says “L” first. RPM reads zero because the A&P who installed it didn’t hook up it up to the tach. 

A little too compact for my old eyes, is that a 2” version?

Map shows 6.4?

[carusoam]

Summary…

1) Is this update for a forever-plane?

2) If yes… consider a monitor that is primary, so that all the old gauges can be replaced by it…

3) Know the total install cost… then select the instrument…

4) If you can do all the wiring with your mechanic approving the work… go all in.

5) if you are buying a used JPI 700, the install costs are expensive… so get the most modern version you can…
 

6) Many forever-planes get the Big JPI, or EI, or other ‘primary’ instruments….

7) Going to the next level…  the Big G EIS…. Is a great flight data recorder as well… amazing amount of data stored there for complete review later…

8) Integrating a JPI with FF and GPS data can be really helpful for knowing fuel available to the Finish line….

 

Either way…

Having EGTs, CHTs, and FF… is a nice way to add comfort to your flying….  
 

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

On 12/22/2021 at 1:13 PM, ZuluZulu said:

Skip the 700 (and the color screen upgrade 730), get at least the 830.  I bought my plane with a 730 already installed.  It showed EGT/CHT but not MAP or RPM.  This was an issue for troubleshooting since I only had partial data to look at.  At first annual, I upgraded it to an 830.  It's been much better and more reassuring having the more capable engine monitor to supplement the primary gauges.  Like others are saying, do it once, do it right.  (I'm now regretting not going all the way to a 900, but my excuse is I haven't decided between Garmin's G3X EIS or the 900 for the final stage upgrade yet).

FWIW, the 830 is the same hardware as the 730.  They just call it the 830 if you happen to install or have the RPM/MAP sensors, and the 730 if you don't.

Upgrading a 700 to a 730/830 is a cheap and simple upgrade if you haven't decided to go with the 900 yet.

I mentioned elsewhere that the EI engine monitors are more space efficient than the 730/830 display, though, so panel space might dictate between the two

[Joshua Blackh4t]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:40 PM, NotarPilot said:

I’ve had a G3 in my plane since 2012 and it’s been fairly reliable. I remember a few issues early on but support from Insight was pretty good, especially while under warranty. It’s been several years since I had any issues with it. Last issue was a bad probe on the EGT which was easily fixed.

One of the things I like best about the G3 is it gives you a lot of information in a compact display. I can fuel up my tanks and set it to 64 gallons. The G3 will tell me what my endurance is based on the gallons per minute I’m burning. I also really love how when you go from ROP to LOP it will peak out at a particular EGT temp and as you go on the lean side it tells you how many degrees you are from peak EGT. You can see in this from the photo where there are white boxes above each EGT bar with a value that says “L” first. RPM reads zero because the A&P who installed it didn’t hook up it up to the tach. 
 

My J is in the shop getting a Dynon Skyview HDX and I’ll be selling my G3 and probes once I get everything back, hopefully next week.

 

Ohhh, that looks nice. Makes me want one. I might be interested if you're selling it.

Otherwise, now I'm looking at the Electronics Internations CGR premium as a primary for 'only' another $1000.

I get what everyone is saying about avoiding possibly expensive replacements of worn out primary guages. 

I just need my mechanic to finish Christmas holidays so I can talk to him about it.

 

Another note, a lot of the fuel monitors are talking about GPS intergrations which sort of sounds good, but I have flown with too many changing weather patterns that I would worry about them. The GPS doesn't know that the last hour might be below cloud and with a 30kt headwind in turbulance. I had below 100kts GS in a 20E a month ago, very painful. Anyway, my point is, is it really a good thing to have this automatically calculated?

Thanks,

Joshua

[jaylw314]

The only utility of GPS integration is calculating fuel efficiency (miles/gal) and recording speed as a data parameter (so you can download and graph engine data vs groundspeed or altitude, for example).  It's not a game stopper either way.

Perhaps a nice in-cockpit use with some interfaces is that if you have a GPS flight plan, the engine monitor can calculate your fuel burn to your destination based on your current groundspeed (and your fuel reserve on landing).  However, since as long as my GNS-530W gets FF data FROM the engine monitor, I can display all those things (more legibly) on the GPS unit.

[NotarPilot]

On 12/29/2021 at 2:57 AM, ArtVandelay said:

A little too compact for my old eyes, is that a 2” version?

Map shows 6.4?

Yes it is the 2” version. They make a larger version too.

[NotarPilot]

10 hours ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Ohhh, that looks nice. Makes me want one. I might be interested if you're selling it.

I’ll give you a heads up once I get everything back to see if you’re interested.

[ZuluZulu]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:48 AM, FredG said:

Hi there,

would the G3X act as primary and all the old stuff could be removed? And would that be the 7” one?

thx

F.

I believe I have to choose either the G3X or the JPI EDM-900.  Not both.  I believe @Marauder upgraded to a primary engine monitor but retained backup instruments that are technically certified for primary use.  Right?

[Marauder]

I believe I have to choose either the G3X or the JPI EDM-900.  Not both.  I believe [mention=9886]Marauder[/mention] upgraded to a primary engine monitor but retained backup instruments that are technically certified for primary use.  Right?

I think one thing to keep in mind that if you lose a primary instrument, technically the plane is grounded. I started off with a JPI 830 which is not a primary and also doesn’t have all the primary instruments built into it (ex. No fuel gauges, no fuel pressure).

I upgraded the 830 to a 900 which gave me all the primary gauges and used the factory gauges as backup. After a while, when the factory primary gauges began failing, I replaced them with electronic primary gauges. Why? Let’s say I lose the MP on my JPI 900, technically I’m grounded. But with an EI MP gauge in the panel, I still have a primary MP gauge.

The biggest issue with something like a JPI 900, Garmin G3X, Insight or any other single instrument is that if you lose the display, you’re grounded.

I don’t have everything backed up but I have the RPM, MP and fuel pressure covered.

As for the question about the GPS interface, there is some value to know how much expected fuel duration you’ll have. And since it is coming off your actual fuel flow, it will be pretty accurate.

And since we are talking about fuel. Consider upgrading to CiES senders for fuel quantity. I’ve been impressed with the accuracy of the fuel gauges with these senders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ZuluZulu]

25 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Are the dual instruments sharing the same probes or are they separated?

[Marauder]

Are the dual instruments sharing the same probes or are they separated?

Fuel flow and pressure have their own transducers. RPM sensing, I believe one comes from the mag directly and the other from the ignition switch. MP is the weak link. They originate from the same port in the engine but have a T fitting that splits it between the JPI and EI instruments.

Hope that helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[MMsuper21]

A bit late but I really enjoy the G2 I like the lean and rich boxes. As for size the egt/cht my impression is it’s the same size when you divide up the real estate on the bigger screens with all the extra data being displayed. Maybe somebody who flew both can chime in.
 

Leaning is really easy even for a noob like me, twist till you see the box appear and than go ROP or LOP and each cylinder has a box with the degrees from peak egt while staying out of the Redbox. 
 

I ordered the CGR 30c not installed yet to compliment the G2 and replace the remaining analog gauges. My main goal was cost effectiveness and safety. 
 

Hardware was $3800 with all new probes and I am able to do it in steps. The G3 could display all the info I need from CGR but it’s not primary and with the old displays slowly dying (fuel levels, amps, oil p/t) I won’t be grounded once they do. 
 

Disclaimer I had an old GEM602, which made the G2 install easy, no fuel flow yet that’s going in when installing the CGR.