Newbe with Hot start question

[Gunderbear]

I have a 1965 M20E with a newly Overhauled engine.  So far hot starts require a pickup truck and jumper cables.  Any good advice from my fellow comrades-in-wings.

Bill

[John Pleisse]

No priming, mixture all the way lean, throttle in a half inch and crank for not more than 8-10 sec's per attempt. When it starts to catch, quickly advance the mixture forward. If it doesn't fire, do not add boost.... just lean the mixture, wait 30 sec's and start again. Remember, once you advance the mixture on your first try, you have already released the hounds.

I went through a few batteries and one starter learning the hard way. Bright spot? I bought a high speed starter and now all of it is easy. Big difference, great investment if you don't already have it.

[danb35]

On my F (same engine), it's boost pump off, mixture at idle cutoff, wide open throttle, crank until it fires.  Then quickly enrich mixture and retard throttle.  I find it works 90+% of the time.

[Steve65E-NC]

I have had my 65E since 1992.  Until last year, hot starts were a persistent problem.  I tried everything and every technique.  Tremendous distortions in planning to avoid hot starts.  Last year I needed a new starter and installed a Sky-Tec 149-NL.  So far, that appears to end the problem.  It swings the prop fast enough to overcome even flooded conditions.  Wish I could have made the change a decade ago.  No change required in baffeling etc.  You can keep playing, or you can just fix it.  Give Sky-Tec a call.

[Shadrach]

Quote: N4352H

No priming, mixture all the way lean, throttle in a half inch and crank for not more than 8-10 sec's per attempt. When it starts to catch, quickly advance the mixture forward. If it doesn't fire, do not add boost.... just lean the mixture, wait 30 sec's and start again. Remember, once you advance the mixture on your first try, you have already released the hounds.

I went through a few batteries and one starter learning the hard way. Bright spot? I bought a high speed starter and now all of it is easy. Big difference, great investment if you don't already have it.

The above method is what we've always used with our F and it never fails. The only time I would go wide open throttle on a hot start is if the engine was flooded. Otherwise, it's a needless extra step that would require moving the throttle and the mixture in opposite directions almost simultaneously when the engine starts. It likely works fine, but is unnecessary.

[DaV8or]

I use the 1300 RPM shut down method. When you know there is going to be a hot start, set the throttle to 1300 RPM, then lean cut off. When you want to start up again, make sure there is fuel pressure, so boost pump on until the pressure's up, then off. After that, don't touch anything except the starter switch. When the motor starts to fire, push the mixture in followed by pulling the throttle back. Works every time for me and starts just as easy, if not better than cold.

[flyguy241]

Quote: DaV8or

I use the 1300 RPM shut down method. When you know there is going to be a hot start, set the throttle to 1300 RPM, then lean cut off. When you want to start up again, make sure there is fuel pressure, so boost pump on until the pressure's up, then off. After that, don't touch anything except the starter switch. When the motor starts to fire, push the mixture in followed by pulling the throttle back. Works every time for me and starts just as easy, if not better than cold.

[aviatoreb]

I have a completely different engine, and I have no idea of this applies to the other engines.  I have a TSIO520 that goes with the rocket.

In any case, I full throttle and full rich and then prime for anywhere from 0 to 8 seconds depending on if the engine was shut down from 0 seconds ago to more than 4 hours ago, and depending on OAT.  Then throttle to just cracked and rich to full.  Then I crank to motor.  It seems to always kick a few catches with this procedure.  When I first got the airplane, I couldn't get it to take after that.  And once I missed it, then it was a bear to start and I finally learned to start it from there with the flood procedure, which is a pain.  But, I have learned that if upon the first sign of catching, I give it a kick of boost, like a half a second, then it goes from just catching to running.  Once in a while it might sputter even a second time, and I just give it an immediate second kick of boost pump.  Since I have been doing that since early last summer,  I have not had a single difficult hot start.  It is just a matter of being quick with the boost pump.  I have my left hand on the key.  ANd my right hand on the black throttle knob and my right thumb covers the boost switch.  It all happens so quickly that I bet my passengers hear nothing other than a smooth and easy start every time.

[jetdriven]

According to David McGee at AAA do the 1000 rpm "don't touch anything" method.     

[NateZ]

I've never flown a plane where the no prime, full throttle, closed mixture method didn't work. This was the only way the notoriously hard hot starting IO-320's on my twin comanche would start. Be quick to throw the mixture in and the throttle out confidently and all will seem like a normal start. 

 

Nate

[Shadrach]

Quote: aviatoreb

I have a completely different engine, and I have no idea of this applies to the other engines.  I have a TSIO520 that goes with the rocket.

In any case, I full throttle and full rich and then prime for anywhere from 0 to 8 seconds depending on if the engine was shut down from 0 seconds ago to more than 4 hours ago, and depending on OAT.  Then throttle to just cracked and rich to full.  Then I crank to motor.  It seems to always kick a few catches with this procedure.  When I first got the airplane, I couldn't get it to take after that.  And once I missed it, then it was a bear to start and I finally learned to start it from there with the flood procedure, which is a pain.  But, I have learned that if upon the first sign of catching, I give it a kick of boost, like a half a second, then it goes from just catching to running.  Once in a while it might sputter even a second time, and I just give it an immediate second kick of boost pump.  Since I have been doing that since early last summer,  I have not had a single difficult hot start.  It is just a matter of being quick with the boost pump.  I have my left hand on the key.  ANd my right hand on the black throttle knob and my right thumb covers the boost switch.  It all happens so quickly that I bet my passengers hear nothing other than a smooth and easy start every time.

[1964-M20E]

1100 to 1300 methods works great.  Very rare to get a failure to start on the first turn of the switch with this method.

[M20F]

I start mine the same way each time

Cold - Throttle Cracked / Boost Pump On / Mixture in till about 1 second after fuel pressure registers / Boost Pump Off / Mixture cut off.  Turn starter it will fire on 2-3 blades; mixture in.  Doesn't work repeat process.

Hot - Throttle Halfway / Boost Pump On / Mixture in till about 1 second after fuel pressure registers / Boost Pump Off / Mixture cut off.  Turn starter it will fire in about 5-10 seconds of cranking; mixture SLOWLY advanced.  Doesn't work repeat the process.

Only difference between the two processes is the throttle position and the advancement speed of mixture. 

If you really screw it up then best thing to do is boost pump on, mixture full, flood it and then throttle all way forward mixture all the way out.  When it screams to life push the mixture in.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: Shadrach

 You have a completely different injection system.  With the Continental system you can "purge" a lot of the system with the mixture closed as you have a return line. The lyc is not the same.

My question is - if you are priming at full rich, whay does the mixture need to go back to full rich???

[Shadrach]

Quote: aviatoreb

 You have a completely different injection system.  With the Continental system you can "purge" a lot of the system with the mixture closed as you have a return line. The lyc is not the same.

My question is - if you are priming at full rich, whay does the mixture need to go back to full rich???

[aviatoreb]

Quote: Shadrach

I read your acknowledgment, I was not attacking you or your post, just confirming the difference.

Sorry I wasn't clear, my question is - are you priming at full rich, then going to idle cutoff, then back to full rich for start?  That's how I read your post... Or, do you just leave it full rich for prime and start?

[jetdriven]

" I lean agressively so that it will want to caugh and sputter lest I were a dummy and forget my check list to full rich before the take off roll."

 

excellent idea.

[DrBill]

I too have a 65 E model.  Any starts are a Non-issue. 

Hot Starts. (try to shutdown at 1000 RPM and leave throttle where it is).  Get in and DONT TOUCH ANYTHING.  No fuel pump, no nothing.  Turn on Master Swithc and "CLEAR" then start.  When the engine catches (2-3 props in mine), smoothly enrich the mixture.

I did it three times this last weekend. It just WORKS.

Bill   Mint Hill, NC

 

[Gunderbear]

thank you all for the great info and experience sharing moments.  I flew today but ended with just the one flight.  Tomorrow I will be tying the hot start.  I am going with the 1100 - 1300 don't touch anything method first and will report the findings.