Kline engine overhauls

[cowboy]

Anyone out there have any experience, known someone that has used or had experinece with Kline engine overhaul shop in Brooklyn, Michigan??  Their pricing seems way low and was wondering if you get what you pay for with them or if they do great work for a cheap price??  I think that their basic overhaul price is around 7 or 8K??  Thanks

[Cruiser]

ask for a list of past customers and check with them. If the shop is unwilling to provide contacts due to privacy issues ask the shop to provide your contact info to the customers. If you don't get any replies look elsewhere.

[74657]

I looked at them.  Good people.  Small shop.  If I had an 0-200 or 0-360 I would use them but I went to a different shop for my IO-550 overhaul.  They do a lot of overhauls on local planes around here.

Their pricing is low because it can be.  Their overhead is lower than the "big name" guys.

7-8K is too low for a complete overhaul unless it is a teardown/inspect/reassemble.

[jetdriven]

Thats also going to be a reground cam and tappets.  Large chance of that not making another overhaul interval, this is a weak point on Lycomings.

[HeyChuck]

I bought a Lycoming O-360 engine from Kline in 1999 for an engine conversion on a Cessna. They had overhauled the engine, and I was attracted by the reasonable price. The engine ran fine once started, but I had a lot of problems starting it, which led to other problems... It turned out that one of the magnetos (the left one, as I recall) they had sold with the engine was not the correct one, and I had to replace it. Although I requested they replace the magneto or reimburse me for the replacement , they did not.  I will not do buisness with them again.

[PTK]

It would be worth to thoroughly research this and compare to another shop.

Same question I had about Devine Air Aircraft Painting. They advertise a Mooney at $7,995.00 for a complete strip and repaint with one color and two stripes.

Perhaps these are real price levels for these services and we've been overcharged all along. Obviously these folks are making a profit at these levels!

[Clarence]

Run Forest Run!!!

From the one I've seen you would be better off just sending them your log books for an entry and leaving the engine in the plane, then again even the log book entry was bogus.

I don't see how they can overhaul an engine and meet the requirements of Lycoming S/B 240 at what they are charging

Clarence

 

[Shadrach]

I had my IO-360 IRAN'd when the case cracked at 830hrs. I had new guides installed in the cylinders with the valve seats relapped (by hand), new lifters and new bearings and rod bolts. All of the other internals were perfect. Tear down, IRAN and reassembly with an OH'd case cost $3750 total... I had to remove deliver and reinstall the engine, but I feel it was a good value and it runs like a top.  The case was created within 4 hours of me delivering the engine. These things aren't that complicated and don't need to be crazy expensive.  Aero Engines of Winchester did the work and I'd use them again!

[MikeinFL]

My m20F had a Kline rebuild from a previous owner. I had nothing but troubles with it and it required a rebuild after 800 hours.

 

I would RUN AWAY from these guys.

 

Mike

[Kerrmit]

ALCON:

I’ve been using Kline Aviation for 28 years.  Paul and Luke have done an amazing job on all three of my Lycoming O-360s (2 narrow deck and 1 wide deck), on my narrow deck 0-320, on my on my Continental O-360, and on my O-200s.

i would not go anywhere else.  The engines all run past TBO, I rarely have to do a cylinder between overhauls and I could not be happier.  If you are wondering what their secret is, they actually repair everything on premises so they are not dealing with middlemen and driving up my costs.  I think very highly of them.  You can pay more money, I doubt you’ll get better service.

I was surprised to read about the incorrect mag.  No one is perfect.  I can’t believe Paul didn’t replace it but if the customer became discourteous over it, that would have a predictable result.

I would also add that Paul gives back to the community and teaches Scouts how to assemble aircraft engines each summer,

I think Paul and Luke are superb and highly recommend them.

[tigers2007]

I’ve heard anecdotes similar to yours Kerrmit and I’ve also heard horror stories. Take away half of the embellishment it’s still a lot of bad PR. Could one error bring down a firm? Doesn’t seem like it; Kline’s prices are at the bottom of the industry and they’re still in business. The only documented error I recall was an engine failure in PA that resulted in serious injuries (edited). IIRC, the NTSB focused on why incorrect wrist pins were installed. Whatever it was, they were pointing fingers at Kline for installing the wrong parts (that were supplied by the customer? Who knows).

There are many firms out there that walk that fine line of being too good to be true. I think Jewell Aviation is very similar considering their prices ($12.7 for engine, $3.0 to send off prop, and $1.7 to R&R engine from plane).

 

 

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[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Kerrmit/congrats on your first post...

Checking the date on this thread...  it appears to be quite the sleeping dog...

the OP Never came back...

Why did you wait so long to respond?  

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

These things are like airlines. Boeing does not sell their planes significantly cheaper to one line or another. Nor does BP give a huge break on. Jet A. It is a commodity traded on an exchange. Equally so, Lycoming, Continental, Spruce, Aviall and Superior do not hand out deals to a small shop. The only place you can cut costs is in overhead, i.e. real estate, insurance, taxes or labor.  If you think they can save that much money on overhead, you may have something. If you think they are. paying themselves what everybody else is paying themselves for the same work scope, be skeptical.

[ArtVandelay]

The devil is in the details. I saw a low advertised price from a well known engine shop, when my mechanic called with my specific model, the real price ended up being almost the same as others.
Don’t forget taxes, some run as high as 10% or more where Florida has no sales tax on aviation services.


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[tigers2007]

I think to be fair here there have been a few anecdotes of MS members that have had serious issues with Lycon and Penn Yan overhauls. Hell I’ve heard horror stories with factory overhauled motors. Maybe those were all “Friday” engines and those firms intense QA teams missed the target that day. The big difference that is a matter of fact between the big and micro overhaul firms IS their QM system. The probability of improper assembly and use of incorrect parts is so much smaller. If I was a Kline customer I would want to hear a reasonable explanation of what in the hell went wrong in their process and what changes they have made. Maybe they can make a fancy videos like Western Skyways and Signature have made (YouTube) showing their standardized overhaul systems.
But how can the butcher and baker pay the rent and electricity bill if they sell $2 steaks and $0.50 loaves of bread?
I think many of our MS members just pointed that out. There are areas where costs are cut down significantly like reusing questionable parts.
Here is the NTSB report. 839hr engine with Incorrect connecting rod bearings and incorrect connecting rods. Part numbers were still obvious on the parts found during the investigation. Not sure how in the hell a pro A&P/IA can F this up. I’ve never overhauled a plane motor but are you really supposed to verify the correct parts are being installed even if using new pieces? Do they REALLY check every part number?

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20121225X13047&ntsbno=ERA13LA097&akey=1

https://generalaviationnews.com/2014/12/18/improper-parts-for-piper/




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[Yetti]

Nobody thanks the sound guy.   But if there is feedback the sound guy is in trouble.  The only stories you hear are where people have problems.   The local IA OH a O-360 for about $8K with big stuff.   If the machining is in shop, then that would reduce prices more.

[Sandman993]

Drives me nuts when folks weigh in on businesses they’ve never done nor will do business with. Not the first time I’ve read that here. 
When folks here get done doggin every shop out there... won’t be one left standing. 

“Lower prices”, it simply means you’re guaranteeing most or all internal engine components are reusable...if not, there will most certainly be change orders. 
 

personally, I  likey new parts, but that’s up to the guy that’s paying. So there I was under the overpass with my cardboard sign... Funny how no passerby had sympathy for an aircraft engine rebuild.

 

 

 

[Milt]

I had humongous problems with them. They(Paul) told me to bring engine on over for overhaul. Had the shop in St Louis rush pulling the engine and I delivered it myself. Immediately after, Paul closed shop and took off to Arizona for 2 months. Finally rebuilt it after 4 months and price was twice his quote. Also, shop in St Louis installed engine but no start. They spent extra hours diagnosing issue and finally found mags were out of time so they wound up changing spark plug wires to get it to run. NEVER EVER deal with them shade tree mechanics again.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Milt.

Interesting first post!

important pirep for Kline OH…

Best regards,

-a-