Insurance Renewal Time...

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: jwilkins

3. I've heard the same story about insurance rates being about bottomed out now. We'll see what happens.

 

[Becca]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

As you write above, there are some that are consistently more favorable to Mooneys than others.  There are also some that want near-ideal conditions to quote a high performance, Single engine retract.  Their numbers for less than ideal pilots will not be as friendly.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: KSMooniac

I just renewed last week and my agent said that I've pretty much bottomed-out now and rates will likely start going up again after 7 years of declines due to competition in the industry.  Hopefully that won't be the case, but all we can do is hope for continued competition.

My metrics:  ~900 TT, 650 or so in Mooneys, PP, IR, $115k hull, hangared.  $1m/100k for $1271.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Becca

Out of curiousity, which ones are consistently more favorable to Mooneys?

Also a couple implied that a good insurance broker can help you with a claim.  Is that really true?  It seems to me its all about the adjuster at that point.  Our adjuster seemed happy to work with a quality well known shop like Dugosh, I guess that isn't always the case?

[KSMooniac]

Forgot to add that I've been with Phoenix for the last couple of years, and AIG or USAIG / Chartis (can't remember) now before then.  I might move over to $1MM Smooth next time, too.

My recollection before buying my J was that "equivalent" insurance on a Comanche would be several hundred dollars more.  I didn't get a quote on a Bonanza and I wonder how they compare.  I still maintain that Mooneys are the least-expensive XC bird on a per-mile basis when all costs are factored in.  

[MATTS875]

I only had 2 hours of complex time and none in make and model and mine with a 50k hull value was only $1300 .I am only a Private pilot and not instrument rated.Seemed to be a really fair quote.I used Howard Frye and talked with Tom. Very nice and pleasant to deal with.Here is their website if interested.  http://www.aircraftbankinginsurance.com/

[Jerry 5TJ]

One thing I have not heard mentioned much in this thread is the type of coverage.

I believe you want "smooth" coverage and that costs a good bit more because you are getting a lot more insurance.   Don't miss that in your comparison shopping.   Me, I'd rather have zero hull coverage and $1M smooth on my old bird than to fly with $100K/$1M.  

If you only have pension or social security income and no assets, don't bother with liability insurance.  But, if you have anything plaintiff’s attorney can go after, IMO you want to get good insurance.    Not cheap insurance; good insurance.   

  

[pjsny78]

I am not an attorney nor do I know much about plane insurance. I do know however that to protect your assets and income. One should consider registering your aircraft to a sheltered position. Such as a LLC.

This is the first thing I did before even taking possession of my plane to protect my family from an unforeseen event that may or may not be deemed my fault. It’s a low cost insurance policy that may save your butt. I’d be happy to hear what an experienced attorney may recommend.

[PTK]

Quote: pjsny78

I am not an attorney nor do I know much about plane insurance. I do know however that to protect your assets and income. One should consider registering your aircraft to a sheltered position. Such as a LLC.

This is the first thing I did before even taking possession of my plane to protect my family from an unforeseen event that may or may not be deemed my fault. It’s a low cost insurance policy that may save your butt. I’d be happy to hear what an experienced attorney may recommend.

[ChrisH]

I wonder the same thing guys. I transferred my plane over to an LLC at the end of 2011 per our attorney for the same reasons plus tax benefits. But let's face it, somebody can sue us anytime for anything.

[jetdriven]

If you are PIC on The flight I think you can still be sued.  Your partners ate shielded provided you act as a corporation.   

[DonMuncy]

Before you do anything like putting your plane in a corporation, check with an attorney in your state. If you are flying the plane and you negligently hurt someone, you will be liable for damages no matter what form the plane is held in. About the only protection you get is if more than one "owner" is involved and the other guy causes the damage. In that case, a corporate form may protect you. All this is pretty intricate, and a good attorney knowledgeable in the situation where you are, is a must.            

If you are concerned about having someone take away your plane, a corporation is also of little help. The plaintiff's attorney will just go after the stock in the corporation; ergo, the plane. The best protection is a good big insurance policy.

[PTK]

Quote: jerry-N5911Q

 

One thing I have not heard mentioned much in this thread is the type of coverage.

I believe you want "smooth" coverage and that costs a good bit more because you are getting a lot more insurance.   Don't miss that in your comparison shopping.   Me, I'd rather have zero hull coverage and $1M smooth on my old bird than to fly with $100K/$1M.  

If you only have pension or social security income and no assets, don't bother with liability insurance.  But, if you have anything plaintiff’s attorney can go after, IMO you want to get good insurance.    Not cheap insurance; good insurance.   

  

 

 

[pjsny78]

Quote: allsmiles

Hey Patrick! Do you really feel an LLC offers real protection? I have the airplane in an LLC also but sometimes I wonder. What's there to stop them from coming after us personally? And we are exposed because there is no umbrella policy available for aviation.

[jetdriven]

If you write into the articles of incorporation that Anyone who acquires shares in the LLC by court order or by force has no right to vote, sell, or control the company might give you something.  I think it's called a poison pill and renders shares worthless.   Again, contact an attorney and ask them.   

 

[bnicolette]

Wouldn't ten million be more appropriate?  I mean what if we land on a beach and run over 20 people in the process?  What if we crash into a government housing project?  Where does it stop?  We can play the "what if" game to death and no amount of insurance is going to cover these things this day and age where everybody and their brother are just dying to make some easy money.  Why is 1 million going to protect you but 100K isn't.  Where is the basis for these numbers and past court proceedings that says this is the norm and this is the amount of protection you need?  It just seems to me that these days it's hard to come up with some amount that is actually the correct amount that is going to protect you.  Maybe I'm just naive?

I purchased a business at the end of 2011 and my attorney advised me to transfer the plane into an LLC but I think that was more for tax reasons than anything.  Isn't it true that if you yourself are being sued they can't touch anything that is jointly owned???  Nothing is in my name alone (I guess that comes with marriage).  

We need some attorney to chime in on this one.

 

[pjsny78]

Brett,

in most states excluding only a few such as FL, TX. whatever debt a spouse incurs automattically transferes to the other and is equally enforceable.

[bnicolette]

Okay, well now you guys have me really worried about this and perhaps I should switch over to the smooth coverage.  Is this just for passengers or is also for persons and property on the ground?  I never have anybody in my airplane beside family and occasionally friends so I am more worried about possible things out of the airplane.

[DonMuncy]

The reason we (at least I) don't jump in is that these questions are so very "state law" dependent and specific fact dependent, it does more harm than good to speak beyond vague generalities. If I tell you you should or shouldn't do something, I have to put so many limitations and disclaimers on that it makes my fingers tired and your eyes glaze over. Besides which, a slight variation in your particular situation may make my advice poor or dangerous. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm evading responsibility. Since I retired, I don't mind sharing any knowledge I have, but I really only know a little Texas law, and a lot of that may be flawed. 

[jetdriven]

Brett try not to worry.  Also a 1m life insurance policy can sure kick the ass of any people who want to sue  your estate.  

[201er]

Quote: Bnicolette

Wouldn't ten million be more appropriate?... Why is 1 million going to protect you but 100K isn't.  Where is the basis for these numbers and past court proceedings that says this is the norm and this is the amount of protection you need? 

[Becca]

duplicate post.

[Becca]

Quote: allsmiles

Hey Patrick! Do you really feel an LLC offers real protection? I have the airplane in an LLC also but sometimes I wonder. What's there to stop them from coming after us personally? And we are exposed because there is no umbrella policy available for aviation.

[Becca]

Quote: pjsny78

Brett,

in most states excluding only a few such as FL, TX. whatever debt a spouse incurs automattically transferes to the other and is equally enforceable.

[201er]

Quote: Becca

An LLC won't protect you personally from liability due to an accident you've piloted into.  What an LLC will do is it WILL protect you against is liability if someone ELSE flies your plane into an accident.  E.G., if you had a partner on your plane and no LLC, and your partner crashes, the passenger can come after everyone who has a stake in ownership of the airplane.