Matt Lindeman Posted August 3, 2020 Report Posted August 3, 2020 It seems like every aircraft I inquire about has already been sold! I'm looking for any M20 under $40,000. Preferably a C or E model, but I'm open to anything! I'm not concerned with interior or exterior cosmetics, engine or prop time, TTAF, gear up landings, or logbooks. I'd prefer something that is flown often, cared for and maintained well, free from hail damage and corrosion, and hasn't been sitting for extended periods of time. Any level of avionics upgrades would be a plus. Please help me become a Mooney owner! Quote
toto Posted August 3, 2020 Report Posted August 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Matt Lindeman said: free from hail damage For what it's worth, hail damage is often largely cosmetic, and repairs are often much less significant than a gear-up. 1 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted August 3, 2020 Report Posted August 3, 2020 http://aircraftownershipsolutions.com/inventory/1965+mooney+m20e+super+21+n31617/846 No avionics upgrades, and kinda ragged looking, but for the price... Quote
Matt Lindeman Posted August 3, 2020 Author Report Posted August 3, 2020 Just now, gsxrpilot said: http://aircraftownershipsolutions.com/inventory/1965+mooney+m20e+super+21+n31617/846 No avionics upgrades, and kinda ragged looking, but for the price... Thanks Paul. I called on this one a few hours ago as soon as I got the email notification that it went public. Someone had already placed a deposit. I think I'm next in line if they back out. Fingers crossed! Quote
carusoam Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 58 minutes ago, Matt Lindeman said: It seems like every aircraft I inquire about has already been sold! I'm looking for any M20 under $40,000. Preferably a C or E model, but I'm open to anything! I'm not concerned with interior or exterior cosmetics, engine or prop time, TTAF, gear up landings, or logbooks. I'd prefer something that is flown often, cared for and maintained well, free from hail damage and corrosion, and hasn't been sitting for extended periods of time. Any level of avionics upgrades would be a plus. Please help me become a Mooney owner! Lets see if we can tighten down the things that are a bit loose... 1) Some M20s under 40amu are very expensive projects.... are you a mechanic? 2) Not sure about C or E yet. One has fuel injection one doesn’t... both will want an OH.... over time... 3) If FI is affordable... get it... 4) Open to anything... a good long body may cost more than your house... is that OK with you? 5) exterior cosmetics are also protection from oxidation... are you planning on painting soon? 6) interior cosmetics are important for the people that will be flying with you... will you be solo? 7) no concern about mechanicals times... do you have a war chest for OHs? 8) No consideration for damage history? Are you looking to rebuild a wreck? 9) You’re OK buying something with no logbooks... Are you OK rebuilding its history to get through your first annual? 10) Cared for and maintained well... 5 through 9 do not match 10... 11) No hail damage... this is a perfect plane... like no scratches in the paint... 12) Flown often, and hasn’t sat... important enough To you, to say twice... 13) avionics upgrades are a plus... you know there are need to have lately... like ADSB out... 14) are you familiar with PPIs..? 15) Do you have a PPL? 16) Are you IFR rated..? Do you want to be? 17) What is your typical flight...? Matt, This is called the first steps of defining your mission... If you haven’t really defined what you really want... it is hard to move forwards fast enough to make it happen... Unable to move quickly, you will see many planes get away... Don’t just take any M20 coming your direction... Been there, did that... could have done much better... but there wasn’t any MS to research... Want to work on your mission statement...? Or you could go with... here’s my budget, I want the best plane I can get... then start listing which ones are available... The more specific you are about experience, and desires, the more realistic your next experience will be... Can you travel to see planes, or are you stuck in a particular radius? Lets work together to get this figured out before the next plane gets away... PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy yet... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
Raptor05121 Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 Write me a check, I'll let my plane go for $40k, it checks all of your boxes 5 Quote
Matt Lindeman Posted August 4, 2020 Author Report Posted August 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, carusoam said: Lets see if we can tighten down the things that are a bit loose... 1) Some M20s under 40amu are very expensive projects.... are you a mechanic? 2) Not sure about C or E yet. One has fuel injection one doesn’t... both will want an OH.... over time... 3) If FI is affordable... get it... 4) Open to anything... a good long body may cost more than your house... is that OK with you? 5) exterior cosmetics are also protection from oxidation... are you planning on painting soon? 6) interior cosmetics are important for the people that will be flying with you... will you be solo? 7) no concern about mechanicals times... do you have a war chest for OHs? 8) No consideration for damage history? Are you looking to rebuild a wreck? 9) You’re OK buying something with no logbooks... Are you OK rebuilding its history to get through your first annual? 10) Cared for and maintained well... 5 through 9 do not match 10... 11) No hail damage... this is a perfect plane... like no scratches in the paint... 12) Flown often, and hasn’t sat... important enough To you, to say twice... 13) avionics upgrades are a plus... you know there are need to have lately... like ADSB out... 14) are you familiar with PPIs..? 15) Do you have a PPL? 16) Are you IFR rated..? Do you want to be? 17) What is your typical flight...? Matt, This is called the first steps of defining your mission... If you haven’t really defined what you really want... it is hard to move forwards fast enough to make it happen... Unable to move quickly, you will see many planes get away... Don’t just take any M20 coming your direction... Been there, did that... could have done much better... but there wasn’t any MS to research... Want to work on your mission statement...? Or you could go with... here’s my budget, I want the best plane I can get... then start listing which ones are available... The more specific you are about experience, and desires, the more realistic your next experience will be... Can you travel to see planes, or are you stuck in a particular radius? Lets work together to get this figured out before the next plane gets away... PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy yet... Best regards, -a- Thank you for your thought out response to my post. My overall budget is $60K. I am not a mechanic. I am currently an F/A-18 Super Hornet Weapon Systems Officer in the U.S. Navy. I like the C and E models because of the Johnson Bar manual gear. I hadn’t given much thought to fuel injection vs. not. Do you recommend fuel injection? Are long bodies more expensive to maintain? I plan on painting the aircraft if required, but I will hangar in the meantime. I will not be solo; however, my wife is not concerned with interior cosmetics. We plan on updating the interior if we can find a plane at a lower price point. I am not as concerned with mechanical times because I plan to exceed TBO as long as the engine is staying healthy. If logbooks are missing, I will insist on a 20+% reduced price or walk away. “Flown often, and hasn’t sat... important enough To you, to say twice...” … Yes. I am also aware of the ADS-B requirement. My mission is currently to carry myself, my wife, our dog, our soon to be newborn, and weekend bags to Philadelphia/South Florida from Virginia Beach for cross country trips, as well as to build time flying locally. I am open to honing in on exactly what I want in a Mooney. Again, my budget is $60K. I can reasonably travel within a 300-400 mile radius of Virginia Beach in a short notice, but anywhere in the U.S. is doable. I much appreciate your input and advice. If you are willing to assist in my purchase journey, I would be very thankful. -Matt Quote
kpaul Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said: Write me a check, I'll let my plane go for $40k, it checks all of your boxes @Matt Lindeman this one ^^^ is very well documented here on MS. Your 'ship' may have just come it. 4 Quote
carusoam Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 Thanks for your service Matt! B,C,D... very similar, newer is inherently a better choice... don’t confuse with condition... planes changed every year early on... E,F... fuel injection... improves fuel distribution and efficiency that way... F is a mid body... more space for the back seaters... an extra 10% HP for improved T/O and climb ability... got any short strips? My early impression... around y2k... C was affordable, wanted and F, couldn't afford anything better than C... Kids take a decade to fill up the back seat of an M20C... you have time... A ratty interior gives uneasy feeling to anyone that enters... moms, dads, sisters... the hanging shabby windlace is confused with how well the engine has been maintained... Not everyone sees it this way... Do you have GA experience? Hard to commit to a big purchase without experience... Best regards, -a- Quote
Matt Lindeman Posted August 4, 2020 Author Report Posted August 4, 2020 Just now, carusoam said: Thanks for your service Matt! B,C,D... very similar, newer is inherently a better choice... don’t confuse with condition... planes changed every year early on... E,F... fuel injection... improves fuel distribution and efficiency that way... F is a mid body... more space for the back seaters... an extra 10% HP for improved T/O and climb ability... got any short strips? My early impression... around y2k... C was affordable, wanted and F, couldn't afford anything better than C... Kids take a decade to fill up the back seat of an M20C... you have time... A ratty interior gives uneasy feeling to anyone that enters... moms, dads, sisters... the hanging shabby windlace is confused with how well the engine has been maintained... Not everyone sees it this way... Do you have GA experience? Hard to commit to a big purchase without experience... Best regards, -a- Yes I have GA experience. I want to fly more regularly, and I anticipate flying enough hours each year to make ownership more affordable than renting. Quote
carusoam Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 Got the IR, Matt? For math simplicity... Lets use 100hrs per year... 10 gph is a good rough estimate of fuel burn... 4/gal for fuel price if you want to add more detail... 150kias for speed... Are you on the lookout for insurance yet? This is expensive stuff... MS has a guy if interested... Are you on the lookout for a place to keep it yet? Indoors or out... indoors is better... C through J will roughly fit these over simplified guidelines... J and above are falling away from your budget... if I am wrong... look really closely at what is being offered... Most often, people are more comfortable with a nicely out fitted C, than a ratty F... I owned the Rattiest C... It lived outdoors... and I was happy... Best regards, -a- Quote
Matt Lindeman Posted August 4, 2020 Author Report Posted August 4, 2020 Just now, carusoam said: Got the IR, Matt? For math simplicity... Lets use 100hrs per year... Nest regards, -a- If you're referring to an Instrument Rating, not yet. Quote
carusoam Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 Just now, Matt Lindeman said: If you're referring to an Instrument Rating, not yet. Yes I am... The reason I ask.... Is there are VFR Mooneys and IFR Mooneys..... To upgrade from the lower level to the upper level can get expensive... Much better to get one that is WAAS capable now... How do you feel about an auto pilot..? Best regards, -a- Quote
Matt Lindeman Posted August 4, 2020 Author Report Posted August 4, 2020 That makes sense seeing as everything is going towards WAAS/RNAV/GPS. I don't need a crazy avionics suite, just basic IFR capability. I'm indifferent to auto pilot. Nice to have, but not a deal breaker for me. I know I don't have the budget to be super picky. Quote
201Steve Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 I think, unless you just get lucky (or negligent) during your turn as its keeper, it’s almost never cheaper to buy. It hasn’t been for me, but I sure do love nobody F’n with my stuff and going anytime I like. =) others may have made it work. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 Matt, Start writing your top 10 list... 1) ADSB 2) WAAS GPS 3) JPI 900 4) HSI 5) G5 Expect to make edits... Some things will move up the list, some will move down... Some things get added... If you don’t know what something is... let’s not ignore it... a plane may have it... another may not... Don’t let it be too late when you find out... Selling a plane that isn’t right the first time... is incredibly expensive for most people... Don’t be disappointed when you find out... some people have plenty of dough and don’t mind ‘wasting‘ some of it... No two MSers are alike... Best regards, -a- Quote
Ross Taylor Posted August 4, 2020 Report Posted August 4, 2020 Definitely consider @Raptor05121 bird...we know the story and his reason for selling. You mentioned wanting a C or E because they have a Johnson bar manual gear. Note that’s not a given...our E, like many others, has electric gear. Quote
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