flysamo Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) just finished up Garmin to 275 set up in a ovation, removed vacuum system and installed a GTN 750. During final system testing. The kfc 150 auto pilot did not respond properly. Auto pilot was pulled and sent in for inspection. That's when the problem, report came back. There are 2 boards in the unit, that are bad, one board can be repaired but the second board was toast ( burned up). Then the problems started, a replacement board used to be about a 1k$, about a year ago, today the replacement board is $5000 from BK. the adjustable pots on the side of the unit are about $500 each, there are two of them. aero cruze 230 is one choice, but now Mooney trim motors are becoming hard to source and up to 10k$ if they are repaired. Garmin auto pilot 500 series currently is looking pretty good choice. but its not certified currently, looks like they will be certified in the near future for the G275.all the signals are there. Wanted to keep the KFC 150 until later, We have been drifting father away from BK products and could use some comments. but dealing with Bendix king leaves a sour taste as they seem to be pushing their aero cruze but servos are a very big concern. after talking with the avionics company have decided to due a temporary repair to the KAP 150. the long term fix is to install the Garmin series 500 autopilot unit, this will add 7K to the job when comparing auto pilots but on the other hand no more Bendix king which would have run about 10K , aircraft will have Garmin servos with a 1200$ exchange price if they go bad, the Bendix king 230 aero Cruze is not capable of receiving updated signals at this time and Bendix does not have the best track record. Since they decided not to be price completive with replacement parts for the KAP 150, I voted with my wallet information that I received is that The G275 will be certified to work with the Garmin 500 by September 2020 so I will join other planes waiting for the paper work to be ready and get it installed, Edited June 16, 2020 by flysamo added info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 We were in a similar boat with our KFC200. Pitch servo failed and it was going to cost $4000 to repair. With so many other parts that could fail and were going to be expensive to repair, we opted to replace the system. The GFC500 was not yet certified for our J. We opted to hand fly the plane until it was. Turned out to be about 18 months. I don't think it will be that long until Garmin certifies the GI275 for use with the GFC500 though. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 There is another BK AP oddity reported by @Oldguy... In another thread this morning... After Aspen install... Samo, what flight display are you using? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Is the aero cruze available yet? Last time I checked, it still was not being released into the wild. Also, as I understood it, Bendix king was issuing a new warranty on existing servos as part of the deal with aero Cruz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Also, I was in the same boat as you a couple of years ago with my KFC 150. It was sent off to one of the three or four repair stations approved by Bendix king and I believe the price at that time was under $3000 for the complete overhaul of the unit including replacement of the circuit board(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flysamo Posted June 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 display will be( is) dual G275 units. vacuum system was removed, with GTN 750 system from 480 nav. if we have to fly without an auto pilot so be it( hate the thought). waiting to hear if aerocruze or 500 series will be the way to go. Certification says it all. if BK .Garmin or BK had better step up. their BK track record is not impressive. my wallet will spell it out for BK, so far Garmin leads the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Bravoman said: Is the aero cruze available yet? Last time I checked, it still was not being released into the wild. Also, as I understood it, Bendix king was issuing a new warranty on existing servos as part of the deal with aero Cruz. Yes, the AeroCruze 230 is out and available. But does not yet talk with anything but BK inputs, so Aspen and all of the others are still off limits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, flysamo said: just finished up Garmin to 275 set up in a ovation, removed vacuum system and installed a GTN 750. During final system testing. The kfc 150 auto pilot did not respond properly. Auto pilot was pulled and sent in for inspection. That's when the problem, report came back. There are 2 boards in the unit, that are bad, one board can be repaired but the second board was toast ( burned up). Then the problems started, a replacement board used to be about a 1k$, about a year ago, today the replacement board is $5000 from BK. the adjustable pots on the side of the unit are about $500 each, there are two of them. aero cruze 230 is one choice, but now Mooney trim motors are becoming hard to source and up to 10k$ if they are repaired. Garmin auto pilot 500 series currently is looking pretty good choice. but its not certified currently, looks like they will be certified in the near future for the G275.all the signals are there. Wanted to keep the KFC 150 until later, We have been drifting father away from BK products and could use some comments. but dealing with bendix king leaves a sour taste as they seem to be pushing their aero cruze but servos are a very big concern. I've been going through this same exercise. Echoing others, yes...you can have the KFC230 or the GFC500 for the Ovation now. Although you'll save some money re-using your existing BK servos (assuming you go with the KFC230), they will still need inspecting and signing off by your shop as airworthy. Any components not passing muster will need repairing on your dime before they can be signed off an accepted by BK. Assuming no repairs are needed, you'll get the BK 2-year servo warranty. At the end of the job, you're still left with existing servos - and likely existing wiring - which were points of concern for me. The GI275 is expected to be supported as a valid attitude source for the GFC500 between late-Q3 / early Q4 this year, so you'll have a choice as to whether you want a G5 or GI275. 38 minutes ago, Oldguy said: Yes, the AeroCruze 230 is out and available. But does not yet talk with anything but BK inputs, so Aspen and all of the others are still off limits. Not true. It will interface digitally with Garmin interfaces, such as the GRS77 AHRS computer, GDC74 ADC, G500, G500Txi, and a host of other vendors' products. Not sure about what - specifically - it will talk to from Aspen, but BK's diagram here showing generic connectivity types: https://www.bendixking.com/content/dam/bendixking/en/documents/downloads/89000019-001-kfc-230-aerocruze-autopilot-pilot-guide.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, flysamo said: display will be( is) dual G275 units. vacuum system was removed, with GTN 750 system from 480 nav. if we have to fly without an auto pilot so be it( hate the thought). waiting to hear if aerocruze or 500 series will be the way to go. Certification says it all. if BK .Garmin or BK had better step up. their BK track record is not impressive. my wallet will spell it out for BK, so far Garmin leads the way Instead of spending north of $10-12k just for 2 instruments, why not consider a G3X Touch or a G500Txi? You'll have added features, options, and interface capability (more so on the Txi), and you can use the less-expensive G5 as your attitude source for the GFC500 autopilot instead of the GI275. Not sure what your budget is, so just some thoughts... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 53 minutes ago, StevenL757 said: Not true. It will interface digitally with Garmin interfaces, such as the GRS77 AHRS computer, GDC74 ADC, G500, G500Txi, and a host of other vendors' products. Not sure about what - specifically - it will talk to from Aspen, but BK's diagram here showing generic connectivity types: https://www.bendixking.com/content/dam/bendixking/en/documents/downloads/89000019-001-kfc-230-aerocruze-autopilot-pilot-guide.pdf That would be great if it does. Every time I have asked about it in the past, it was coming within the next year along with the KAI 300. I know Paul (@gsxrpilot) is one of the others on MS who is interested in it. Now if we can just get BK to tell us exactly what they allow the Aspen to provide - especially the MAX units, since the listing in the manual does not call out the MAX units. Thanks again for the info. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khedrei Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Perhaps I dont quite understand the problem but wouldnt it make sense to just install 2 G5's and a GFC 500? If I read this right the GI275s are installed already and the BK auto pilot crapped out and is definitely not worth fixing. It sucks that you have to redo stuff but it's not an entire redo. Sell the GI-275s and install the GFC500 and 2 G5s. Or you can hand fly until the GI275s will drive the GFC500. That's my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 You are in a really tough spot right now. I would probably try buy a used head unit from someone upgrading. If you do decide to upgrade to the gfc500 you could always buy a g5 to drive it and sell once the 275 is certified. Could also sell one of the 275’s (will command top dollar because anyone can buy/install it) and install a g3x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextstone Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 On 6/13/2020 at 12:03 PM, StevenL757 said: Not true. It will interface digitally with Garmin interfaces, such as the GRS77 AHRS computer, GDC74 ADC, G500, G500Txi, and a host of other vendors' products. Not sure about what - specifically - it will talk to from Aspen, but BK's diagram here showing generic connectivity types: https://www.bendixking.com/content/dam/bendixking/en/documents/downloads/89000019-001-kfc-230-aerocruze-autopilot-pilot-guide.pdf I've been in touch with the BK rep regarding the AeroCruz230 to Aspen 1000 pro integration: On June 8th, this was the exchange: My email: "Hi Peter, I am still interested in the AeroCruz 230 for my 95 Bravo. Any new updates on the integration with the Aspen 1000 Pro PFD?" Peter's response: "Good Morning, Apologies for the delay in responding. I unfortunately do not have good news. I was updated last week on all of the current certification, upgrades, and timelines for all AeroCruze 230 activities. It looks like the AeroCruze 230/Aspen interface will not be finalized before the first quarter of 2021. There are number of reasons for this time slip. The primary one is that we have experienced a major reduction in staffing within the company. As a result, we had to prioritize the items that we are currently working on and the interface between the KFC 230 and Aspen had to be pushed back to a later date. We will still work on obtaining the interface and if our situation improves (our financials start to improve), we may be able to see the interface sooner. Let’s plan on keeping in touch with one another. Always feel free to contact me at any time." UGH.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmag Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 On 6/13/2020 at 10:02 AM, flysamo said: just finished up Garmin to 275 set up in a ovation, removed vacuum system and installed a GTN 750. During final system testing. The kfc 150 auto pilot did not respond properly. Auto pilot was pulled and sent in for inspection. That's when the problem, report came back. There are 2 boards in the unit, that are bad, one board can be repaired but the second board was toast ( burned up). Then the problems started, a replacement board used to be about a 1k$, about a year ago, today the replacement board is $5000 from BK. the adjustable pots on the side of the unit are about $500 each, there are two of them. aero cruze 230 is one choice, but now Mooney trim motors are becoming hard to source and up to 10k$ if they are repaired. Garmin auto pilot 500 series currently is looking pretty good choice. but its not certified currently, looks like they will be certified in the near future for the G275.all the signals are there. Wanted to keep the KFC 150 until later, We have been drifting father away from BK products and could use some comments. but dealing with bendix king leaves a sour taste as they seem to be pushing their aero cruze but servos are a very big concern. Garmin GI 275's, Garmin GTN, you will want a Garmin GFC 500. We've done several GFC 500 intstalls and it is a rock solid autopilot and plays nice with the other Garmin stuff in your panel. Cheapest thing is to hand fly until the 275 is certified. Do you have space in your panel for a G5? See if your shop will do a GFC 500 install for you and agree to buy the G5 back from you when the 275 gets certified? I had the same thing happen, my KFC 150 computer crapped out this year, but it was $2,690 repair from autopilot central, so I had it fixed. If I ever have major autopilot problem in the future, I'm going GFC 500. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flysamo Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Thank you for contacting BendixKing by Honeywell: Hello Tony, Why are you rejecting closure on this case? This is not a technical issue. This is an issue for Garmin if they want their unit to work with the KFC 230. I will be closing this case and you will be receiving an auto-generated survey asking to rate our performance. If you have more questions about this subject, just reply to this e-mail and the case will automatically reopen. Thank you for contacting Bendix King, Jay Horting Field Service Engr II BendixKing Technical Support If you wish to communicate with us further about this inquiry, you may reply to this e-mail -- please leave the Reference Case # within the subject line for quicker responses For BendixKing Support please call 855-250-7027, internationally 602-365-7027 or visit www.bendixking.com. Alternatively, you may contact us at the following email addresses: For orders, order status, and quotes: parts@bendixking.com For Technical Publications requests: pubs@bendixking.com For Repairs: olatheservicecenter@honeywell.com For BK Databases requests: nav.database@honeywell.com For BK Technical Support: techsupport@bendixking.com Due to government regulations and/or contractual limitations, all data and/or attachments containing export control information and/or containing details related to Space, Munitions and Missiles items is not authorized for entry or use in our applications or systems at the present time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION: [External] aerocruze 230 support Garmin 275 : CASE-20837081 [ ref:_00D30dWxY._5001B1U2KhH:ref ] Have G275 units in mooney ovation, kfc 150 needs replacing can your unit work with G275, Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 Made my choice easy, thanks Bendix king, now a Garmin GFC 500 operator Edited June 18, 2020 by flysamo added info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khedrei Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 What was the original problem you submitted to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flysamo Posted June 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) wanted to know if Garmin inputs into aerocruze 230 would work or any plans to make it so, their answer was NO, GFC 500 is in full play for the Mooney auto pilot replacement. little bit more expensive but will put an end on dealing with Bendix King for this air craft did a go around, received a loaner kfc 150 box, will be able to see the differences in performance between kfc 150 and GFC 500 and G275 operation starting next week Edited June 19, 2020 by flysamo added info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khedrei Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 In fairness, it doesnt sound like a technical issue. If BK has no plans to accommodate garmin products into their AP or have their AP interact with Garmin inputs, while this is a great reason not to deal with them anymore, it's not a technical issue. I can see why they closed the matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisut Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) On 6/13/2020 at 12:13 PM, StevenL757 said: Instead of spending north of $10-12k just for 2 instruments, why not consider a G3X Touch or a G500Txi? You'll have added features, options, and interface capability (more so on the Txi), and you can use the less-expensive G5 as your attitude source for the GFC500 autopilot instead of the GI275. Not sure what your budget is, so just some thoughts... Our shop quoted us $40k for the 10.6" G500TXi with G5 standby and $28k for the G3X, vs $16k for the two GI 275s. No doubt the G3X and G500TXi offers more capability, but for us the decision was simply budget. On 6/19/2020 at 9:22 AM, flysamo said: wanted to know if Garmin inputs into aerocruze 230 would work or any plans to make it so, their answer was NO, GFC 500 is in full play for the Mooney auto pilot replacement. little bit more expensive but will put an end on dealing with Bendix King for this air craft did a go around, received a loaner kfc 150 box, will be able to see the differences in performance between kfc 150 and GFC 500 and G275 operation starting next week We're in a similar boat with an older Century 31 autopilot. For now, it's working fine but we aren't planning to spend any more money on it, and if that's before the GFC500 is certified, then we plan to just hand-fly. It's too bad the GI 275 doesn't work with the GFC500 out of the box, though for us it worked out better that they released it a year "early" without the support. Edited June 21, 2020 by louisut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenL757 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/16/2020 at 5:50 PM, alextstone said: I've been in touch with the BK rep regarding the AeroCruz230 to Aspen 1000 pro integration: On June 8th, this was the exchange: My email: "Hi Peter, I am still interested in the AeroCruz 230 for my 95 Bravo. Any new updates on the integration with the Aspen 1000 Pro PFD?" Peter's response: "Good Morning, Apologies for the delay in responding. I unfortunately do not have good news. I was updated last week on all of the current certification, upgrades, and timelines for all AeroCruze 230 activities. It looks like the AeroCruze 230/Aspen interface will not be finalized before the first quarter of 2021. There are number of reasons for this time slip. The primary one is that we have experienced a major reduction in staffing within the company. As a result, we had to prioritize the items that we are currently working on and the interface between the KFC 230 and Aspen had to be pushed back to a later date. We will still work on obtaining the interface and if our situation improves (our financials start to improve), we may be able to see the interface sooner. Let’s plan on keeping in touch with one another. Always feel free to contact me at any time." UGH.... Yeah...ouch indeed. For your sake (and other Aspen customers) I hope they don’t take that long, but again, given BK’s track record, all bets are off unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_D Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 7 hours ago, louisut said: Our shop quoted us $40k for the 10.6" G500TXi with G5 standby and $28k for the G3X, vs $16k for the two GI 275s. No doubt the G3X and G500TXi offers more capability, but for us the decision was simply budget. What did the $16K quote fro the two GI 275s include? Which AP would you be connecting this to and what options did you get on the 275s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFriesen Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 I have a BENDIX/KING KC 192 FLIGHT COMPUTER P/N 065-0042-03 for sale if anyone needs one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisut Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 12 hours ago, Greg_D said: What did the $16K quote fro the two GI 275s include? Which AP would you be connecting this to and what options did you get on the 275s? Two AHAHRS+AP units, the OAT sensor, and installation. It was connected to a Century 31. Synthetic vision (+1k) was left out for another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_D Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 hours ago, louisut said: Two AHAHRS+AP units, the OAT sensor, and installation. It was connected to a Century 31. Synthetic vision (+1k) was left out for another day. Why did you need two AP units? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisut Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Greg_D said: Why did you need two AP units? I'm not convinced we do, but back in April there was not much anecdotal info out there, and so we just went with what the shop selected. It was their first install too, so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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