New Aspen E5 - In-Flight Crash and Reset

[bd95r]

So, over the weekend and thanks to these aviation forums...I've been able to connect with 3 other Aspen E5 users having the same random in-flight reset issue.  One thing in common is that all four of us are using the avidyne ifd440.  maybe a coincidence?  but worth noting.

It does seem like E5 is being "told" to be reset by "something"....ie, I don't see any red Xs, error messages, shift to battery or anything in the log that indicate something failed and required a reset....the reset behaves the same if I just flipped the switch other than the normal "shutdown in progress" message you get when you do flip the switch.

[tmo]

@bd95r - can you, for the sake of it, confirm that you indeed do have the RS-232 INPUT from the IFD (if applicable) set to NONE?

[bd95r]

Just now, tmo said:

@bd95r - can you, for the sake of it, confirm that you indeed do have the RS-232 INPUT from the IFD (if applicable) set to NONE?

I am pretty sure the ifd is set to to talk to aspen via ARINC 429

[gsxrpilot]

Here is my config. I have the Aspen E1000 and the IFD540 (so not exactly the same) but the Aspen (Honeywell EFIS) is on the ARINC 429.

 

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, bd95r said:

So, over the weekend and thanks to these aviation forums...I've been able to connect with 3 other Aspen E5 users having the same random in-flight reset issue.  One thing in common is that all four of us are using the avidyne ifd440.  maybe a coincidence?  but worth noting.

It does seem like E5 is being "told" to be reset by "something"....ie, I don't see any red Xs, error messages, shift to battery or anything in the log that indicate something failed and required a reset....the reset behaves the same if I just flipped the switch other than the normal "shutdown in progress" message you get when you do flip the switch.

I'm glad there was a common link between the E5 owners and the Nav equipment. Have you spoken to Avidyne? It's easy in the electronics field to blame the manufacturer of the electronic product where the symptom is seen. I dealt with this for years in the electronics industry. Incompatibility between manufacturers will happen. That is why people like staying with all Garmin products. You pay a premium for this but if it will eliminate cross platform issues.

I have been pretty happy with the Aspens in my plane working with the Garmin GTN. Yeah, when something new comes up like ADS-B, it took longer before the Aspens and the GTN were on the same page. But it works. 

[Baker Avionics]

18 hours ago, bd95r said:

Earlier this year I took the plunge and did an avionics upgrade that included a new avidyne ifd440 and a new Aspen E5.

Unfortunately, since then my new Aspen E5 has been performing poorly in the 9 months since installation. I recently found and reached out to another Aspen E5 customer that is going through similar problems with his new Aspen E5....I am looking to see if other Aspen E5 customers are experiencing similar issues to help find the root cause.

While Aspen has been responsive in trying to resolve the issue I will describe below.....I am posting here to try and get the word out to see if others are experiencing the same problems with the Aspen E5 to see if the community can shed some more light on what is going on with the Aspen E5.

**** So, here goes ::::: I'm now on my 3rd Aspen E5 unit since Feb 2019.

I've had 3 in-flight E5 restarts ( 1 on each E5 )...the E5 just goes blank and reset as if it was normal:

1st reset) On final approach to rwy in Feb - approach power/RPM, gear going down:::E5 replaced by Aspen in Mar

2nd reset) In cruise at ~8k ft in Sept - cruise power/RPM:::E5 replaced again by Aspen + New (blue) shielded RSM cable Nov - cable length less than 12 feet.

3rd reset) On departure at ~5k ft in Dec - high power/RPM:::Logs downloaded and sent to Aspen. Logs seem clean to me but Aspen has yet to review and make a root cause determination

Some background info:
- I've flown about 80 hours since original E5 install
- E5 is just connected to an ifd440 and an Stec-30 via the Aspen ACU
- I have the original 910-00003-002 RSM (E5/Top Mount) installed
- I get no indication on anything in the plane that a reset is pending...ie, dim lights, GPS error, etc
- Seems that there is no correlation in the events for the in-flight reset
- I reviewed the logs sent to Aspen....I can see nothing other than what appear to be normal bootups
- I have looked at the disgnotics page and see nothing out of what I would expect to be normal
- E5 MAP software was 2.10 during all of this
- E5 has a backup battery but never "goes to battery", ie like in a loss of power situation
- There is no ADSB-In info being fed into the system...I use a portable stratus and ipad/foreflight for weather/traffic.

If anyone has any ideas or has experienced any E5 issues, please feel free to reply.

It seems like there is a loose connection, to me at least.  We have installed a ton of these and are continually selling them, as we are the highest selling Aspen Dealer in the Western Region(plug for us), and we haven't had any of these issues.  Now, is the bundle double shielded and have the overbraid? Does it happen when transmitting on the radio and if so, which frequencies?  It truly sounds more like a bad crimp to me.  Call me if you need more info or if you have time so I can maybe help out.  Also, Where are you located and did the same ones who installed your unit install the one for @NJMac?

[Baker Avionics]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Here is my config. I have the Aspen E1000 and the IFD540 (so not exactly the same) but the Aspen (Honeywell EFIS) is on the ARINC 429.

 

Correct Configuration!!!!  Also check the NAV ARINC as well toward one of the last pages.  Be sure it is set to VHF 429 ONLY!!!!!!!

[Marauder]

21 minutes ago, Baker Avionics said:

It seems like there is a loose connection, to me at least.  We have installed a ton of these and are continually selling them, as we are the highest selling Aspen Dealer in the Western Region(plug for us), and we haven't had any of these issues.  Now, is the bundle double shielded and have the overbraid? Does it happen when transmitting on the radio and if so, which frequencies?  It truly sounds more like a bad crimp to me.  Call me if you need more info or if you have time so I can maybe help out.  Also, Where are you located and did the same ones who installed your unit install the one for @NJMac?

Thanks for shedding more light on possible causes. Having worked in the electronics industry, I have seen TONS of installation & sales issues. Everything from poorly installed equipment, to service techs not configuring the product correctly, to sales people selling the wrong solution for the application. I know Aspen had issues with the RSM connection during the initial launch of the PFD. I also know Garmin's GTN had start up issues with the open squelch problem. No one is immune. Just need to work the problem. 

[Baker Avionics]

Just now, Marauder said:

Thanks for shedding more light on possible causes. Having worked in the electronics industry, I have seen TONS of installation & sales issues. Everything from poorly installed equipment, to service techs not configuring the product correctly, to sales people selling the wrong solution for the application. I know Aspen had issues with the RSM connection during the initial launch of the PFD. I also know Garmin's GTN had start up issues with the open squelch problem. No one is immune. Just need to work the problem. 

I totally agree and pointing the finger is easier than figuring out the real problem/issue.  It is what it is and we are all in this together!  We just need to put our heads and experience to work together and solve issues one by one.  

[Marauder]

Just now, Baker Avionics said:

I totally agree and pointing the finger is easier than figuring out the real problem/issue.  It is what it is and we are all in this together!  We just need to put our heads and experience to work together and solve issues one by one.  

Even if one's head is completely bald? 

[Baker Avionics]

Just now, Marauder said:

Even if one's head is completely bald? 

God made some perfect heads and the rest he put hair on!!!!!  Check out our website and you will see my dome!!!!

[Baker Avionics]

19 hours ago, bd95r said:

Earlier this year I took the plunge and did an avionics upgrade that included a new avidyne ifd440 and a new Aspen E5.

Unfortunately, since then my new Aspen E5 has been performing poorly in the 9 months since installation. I recently found and reached out to another Aspen E5 customer that is going through similar problems with his new Aspen E5....I am looking to see if other Aspen E5 customers are experiencing similar issues to help find the root cause.

While Aspen has been responsive in trying to resolve the issue I will describe below.....I am posting here to try and get the word out to see if others are experiencing the same problems with the Aspen E5 to see if the community can shed some more light on what is going on with the Aspen E5.

**** So, here goes ::::: I'm now on my 3rd Aspen E5 unit since Feb 2019.

I've had 3 in-flight E5 restarts ( 1 on each E5 )...the E5 just goes blank and reset as if it was normal:

1st reset) On final approach to rwy in Feb - approach power/RPM, gear going down:::E5 replaced by Aspen in Mar

2nd reset) In cruise at ~8k ft in Sept - cruise power/RPM:::E5 replaced again by Aspen + New (blue) shielded RSM cable Nov - cable length less than 12 feet.

3rd reset) On departure at ~5k ft in Dec - high power/RPM:::Logs downloaded and sent to Aspen. Logs seem clean to me but Aspen has yet to review and make a root cause determination

Some background info:
- I've flown about 80 hours since original E5 install
- E5 is just connected to an ifd440 and an Stec-30 via the Aspen ACU
- I have the original 910-00003-002 RSM (E5/Top Mount) installed
- I get no indication on anything in the plane that a reset is pending...ie, dim lights, GPS error, etc
- Seems that there is no correlation in the events for the in-flight reset
- I reviewed the logs sent to Aspen....I can see nothing other than what appear to be normal bootups
- I have looked at the disgnotics page and see nothing out of what I would expect to be normal
- E5 MAP software was 2.10 during all of this
- E5 has a backup battery but never "goes to battery", ie like in a loss of power situation
- There is no ADSB-In info being fed into the system...I use a portable stratus and ipad/foreflight for weather/traffic.

If anyone has any ideas or has experienced any E5 issues, please feel free to reply.

Can you send me the logs please?  Gbaker@bakeravionics.com

 

[Marauder]

5 minutes ago, Baker Avionics said:

God made some perfect heads and the rest he put hair on!!!!!  Check out our website and you will see my dome!!!!

I've seen your chrome dome brother! 

[bd95r]

49 minutes ago, Baker Avionics said:

Can you send me the logs please?  Gbaker@bakeravionics.com

 

Sure thing...Thank you for taking a look.

[PTK]

2 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

I totally agree and pointing the finger is easier than figuring out the real problem/issue.  It is what it is and we are all in this together!  We just need to put our heads and experience to work together and solve issues one by one.

May I ask you from an avionics shop perspective, who is responsible to ”figure out the real problem/issue?” Do you advocate for the customer or the manufacturer? What advice do you offer your customers? What are your recommendations and your philosophy as far as avionics manufacturers and the quality and dependability of their product? 

[Baker Avionics]

43 minutes ago, PTK said:

May I ask you from an avionics shop perspective, who is responsible to ”figure out the real problem/issue?” Do you advocate for the customer or the manufacturer? What advice do you offer your customers? What are your recommendations and your philosophy as far as avionics manufacturers and the quality and dependability of their product? 

I actually advocate more for the customer by far.  I am currently working with a manufacturer with someone who isn't even my customer.  I feel it ultimately lies on the manufacturer to figure it out but we are all in this together and need to look past finger pointing.  I am not saying that you are doing that at all or anyone is. The advice I offer is recommend what my opinion is but help to educate the customer to the best of my ability.  Once they are educated, they make their decisions based on their wants, needs and thoughts.  I feel most manufacturers are over zealous about their products and I know that most shops do not know what they are doing when it comes to quality work and knowledge of true avionics integration.  They pretty much rely on the Tech Support that the manufacturer has but little do they know they sit in front of a computer looking at scripts and they come, mainly from the industry and they are really not that good at what they do and that lead them up to driving a desk.  

Just my opinion.  

I also think customers like household names and big box stores and that is sad to me when the quality just isn't there.  

[Ragsf15e]

22 hours ago, bd95r said:

yep...same here....puts a real crimp on flying.  I'm not giving up though and looking to get this fixed....Aspen has been in this business a long time and I would expect that they will be able to figure it out.

On a side note....I am looking real hard at the uAvionix AV-30 as a backup once it gets certified.

 

AV-20s is currently available norsee, so you could potentially use that right now as a good, albeit non-required, backup.

[bd95r]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

AV-20s is currently available norsee, so you could potentially use that right now as a good, albeit non-required, backup.

I was looking pretty hard at the AV-20...the price differential between the 20 and 30 isnt that much but either would fit the bill.

 

 

[PTK]

14 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

 

14 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

I also think customers like household names and big box stores and that is sad to me when the quality just isn't there.  

 

Based on your experience how does this apply to avionics for our ga airplanes? Can you give an example?

[MIm20c]

16 minutes ago, PTK said:

Based on your experience how does this apply to avionics for our ga airplanes? Can you give an example?

I can’t speak for Greg but my avionics shop wasn’t thrilled when I brought in a Viper remote start from Best Buy for them to install. 

[NJMac]

It seems like there is a loose connection, to me at least.  We have installed a ton of these and are continually selling them, as we are the highest selling Aspen Dealer in the Western Region(plug for us), and we haven't had any of these issues.  Now, is the bundle double shielded and have the overbraid? Does it happen when transmitting on the radio and if so, which frequencies?  It truly sounds more like a bad crimp to me.  Call me if you need more info or if you have time so I can maybe help out.  Also, Where are you located and did the same ones who installed your unit install the one for [mention=16476]NJMac[/mention]?

Mine was installed at achievement aviation, Lakefield airport (KCQA), Celina Ohio. Not sure where the OPs was installed.

This thread being bumped has me looking at redundancy again. I have a stratus but don't always keep it out since I have a lynx transponder. Not a good backup if it takes time to come online. Wondering how the AV-20 would perform as a non requires backup AI. I've got a digital clock on my near right panel that could be replaced I think.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[MIm20c]

One nice thing about the E5 is that you are not required to have a backup battery or a skid/slip ball on the backup AI that replaces the turn coordinator. I’ll have a lifesaver coming out in January/February if you’re interested. 

[Marauder]

I can’t speak for Greg but my avionics shop wasn’t thrilled when I brought in a Viper remote start from Best Buy for them to install. 

And let’s not forget the owner(s) who drive avionics shops so crazy that they tell the owner, go away and don’t come back. It never ceases to amaze me what some owner’s expectations are of a shop.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

One nice thing about the E5 is that you are not required to have a backup battery or a skid/slip ball on the backup AI that replaces the turn coordinator. I’ll have a lifesaver coming out in January/February if you’re interested. 

Redundancy is a big deal for me. Ironic since I flew for years without a backup AI. I guess as you get older, the young stupid stuff goes away.

My original choice of going with the Aspens back in 2012 was redundancy. The G500 at that time didn’t have a battery backup and there was no reversion capability. When I had my panel updated in 2017, I had an ESI-500 installed as backup to the Aspens for both AI and Nav capability. Expensive unit, but everything you need is in the little box.



I’m on a quest to see if I can get a backup alternator installed on my now vacant vacuum pad. B&C have been helpful (as has Rob T) on looking at the feasibility of installing one. I was hoping a number of you who have dropped your vacuum system would consider it as an option. It’s cool the Aspens, Garmin G-5 and the ESI-500 all have battery backups. But when it comes to an electrical failure, everything depends on the plane’s battery.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, NJMac said:

Mine was installed at achievement aviation, Lakefield airport (KCQA), Celina Ohio. Not sure where the OPs was installed.

This thread being bumped has me looking at redundancy again. I have a stratus but don't always keep it out since I have a lynx transponder. Not a good backup if it takes time to come online. Wondering how the AV-20 would perform as a non requires backup AI. I've got a digital clock on my near right panel that could be replaced I think.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah the av-20 is a good option for that kind of space.  Several MSers have one.  The AOA function isn’t good, but the attitude is fine and a good backup to a single screen.