Mooney gear up landing in germany

[brndiar]

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/229950

Does anyone know more?

[steingar]

Them that have and them that will...

[Fritz Kaiser]

Here the news from the local newpaper.

...only in german  (  maybe  google translater will work )

https://www.rundschau-online.de/region/kreis-euskirchen/dahlem/geglueckte-landung-pilot-muss-seine-maschine-auf-der-binz-notlanden---fahrwerk-defekt-33307836

Fritz

'95 O1   N831T @ EDNR

[Gagarin]

Wonder if he tried the emergency extension. On my M20J I have a Voice Alert  https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/voicegearalert.php  gear alarm, it has paid multiple times.

When on base to final the gear alarm gets mistaken with the stall alarm (both have similar tones) and the pilot push the throttle (muting the alarm) thinking he adverted the stall. The Voice Alert is perfect for pilots over 65. Unfortunately Medicare does not cover it.

 

[EricJ]

11 minutes ago, Gagarin said:

Wonder if he tried the emergency extension. On my M20J I have a Voice Alert  https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/voicegearalert.php  gear alarm, it has paid multiple times.

When on base to final the gear alarm gets mistaken with the stall alarm (both have similar tones) and the pilot push the throttle (muting the alarm) thinking he adverted the stall. The Voice Alert is perfect for pilots over 65. Unfortunately Medicare does not cover it.

 

The article says he burned a lot of fuel off trying the normal and emergency systems with no success.   Sounds like this one was not easily avoidable.

[KSMooniac]

I wonder if the infamous no back clutch spring failed?

My first thought was a spline failure at the cable/gear box interface like I've had in my 77 (side crank handle vs lawn mower pull cable on the floor) but this is a later 205.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[Ibra]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:42 PM, EricJ said:

The article says he burned a lot of fuel off trying the normal and emergency systems with no success.   Sounds like this one was not easily avoidable.

How often people try testing that manual extension while electrics are still OK? (last time I pull it for "12 arm gym practice" was 1 year ago)

[EricJ]

42 minutes ago, Ibra said:

How often people try testing that manual extension while electrics are still OK? (last time I pull it for "12 arm gym practice" was 1 year ago)

It's supposed to be done at every annual inspection.   It can be practiced on the ground any time the airplane is on jacks.

[carusoam]

Do it at least once... during the annual, while on jacks is a normal time to do it...

Really low cost exercise, if you are involved in an owner assisted annual.

I’ve forgotten the words for the owner being involved with the annual... when I did them... the mechanics like to have me there... I generated plenty of extra work... stuff they wouldn’t have broken without me...   

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ibra]

Yes, it got that checked on each annual, I was referring to try it while flying? 

It is a pleasure to see the gear extended while outside and aircraft on jacks, something pilots are not used to see while flying

[carusoam]

6 hours ago, Ibra said:

Yes, it got that checked on each annual, I was referring to try it while flying? 

It is a pleasure to see the gear extended while outside and aircraft on jacks, something pilots are not used to see while flying

It is one of those things that gets visited during Transition Training if desired...

If it works on the ground during a PPI, it will work in the air during TT.

 

The only thing that gets in the way of the manual gear working... the spline that gets ruined when the manual gear gets unlocked accidentally before the gear is operated normally....

Make sure your checklist has check the gear manual lock....  often back seaters have accidentally released the safety by standing on it...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI or mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

8 hours ago, Ibra said:

Yes, it got that checked on each annual, I was referring to try it while flying? 

It is a pleasure to see the gear extended while outside and aircraft on jacks, something pilots are not used to see while flying

Stick to doing it on jacks rather than in the air. Sure it should work fine, but we've seen enough failures in the air leading to unavoidable gear up's like the incident mentioned above that we no longer do these in the air at the MAPA PPP's for this reason.

[pwnel]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:30 PM, kortopates said:

Stick to doing it on jacks rather than in the air. Sure it should work fine, but we've seen enough failures in the air leading to unavoidable gear up's like the incident mentioned above that we no longer do these in the air at the MAPA PPP's for this reason.

Oh ok. I've done it a couple of times in the air for practice.  Not a good idea then (since I have jacks in my hangar anyway). 

[mike_elliott]

On 10/14/2019 at 3:48 PM, KSMooniac said:

I wonder if the infamous no back clutch spring failed?

My first thought was a spline failure at the cable/gear box interface like I've had in my 77 (side crank handle vs lawn mower pull cable on the floor) but this is a later 205.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

could be this little .4AMU brass clutch on the 205

[brndiar]

7 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

DO NOT RPEAT DO NOT, do practice extensions of your manual emergency gear systems in a J etc EXCEPT when on anuual and only then with the bottom panels off.

the reason as Mikes beautiful photo shows above.... in the top of the photo you will see a lever woth a spring attached, this moves that brass ($850) engagement piece onto the jack screw and allows you to wind the gear down by hand.  HOWEVER, its not the best design as the jack screw is steel and that thing is soft brass.  If after a manual test, and after you have closed the red lever over the emergency handle, the whole mechanism has not reseated itself properly (and you have NO way of knowing this except in a visual inspection) then that brass piece rubs nicely against the jack screw evey time you raise or lower the gear electrically, it gets fucked (engineering technical term) very quickly.   So DO NOT manually test your gear extension except on annual, when you are confident it has reseated itself.  

For those interested, ive linked here my article on no back springs etc.  

 

Is the  side crank handle Mechanism on my 1977 M20C any different? 

[Hank]

26 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

@brndiar the article above only relates to electric operated gears with the old wellington bomber designed worm drive. 

@brndiar's C, like my own, has electric gear with a fold-away crank by our left knee. Don't know if it came from elsewhere or not, much less from a particular Allied aircraft built "over there" or not. Is that where the J "lawn mower" emergency gear extension came from???

[KSMooniac]

Is the  side crank handle Mechanism on my 1977 M20C any different? 

It is different, but equally subject to a similar failure. My 77 J is like your C in this regard. There is a pair of splines that are normally not engaged until you throw the lever by the crank prior to manual extension. However, if they're mis-rigged, the splines will just kiss and get mangled with every normal gear cycle. Then when you really need to crank it down, it won't work.

I've had a real emergency extension when my gear motor died, and fortunately my system worked as intended. Years later during the annual inspection, it would not crank down...at some point the rigging slipped and my spline was ruined. Fortunately we found it on jack stands!

I agree with not practicing this in flight. If you're checking out a new pilot, save it for the hangar on jack stands so you can check the engagement/disengagement.

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[mike_elliott]

just once forget to disengage that hand crank by your left leg when you raise the gear after an emergency gear extension....you will have an emergency knee or leg surgery to repair the damage done by the crank, and then you will be rebuilding the emergency extension system

[EricJ]

47 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

I agree with not practicing this in flight. If you're checking out a new pilot, save it for the hangar on jack stands so you can check the engagement/disengagement.
 

On a Mooney this is good advice.   Other airplanes, e.g., Arrows, lend themselves well to practicing emergency gear extensions in flight.   Mooneys less so.

 

[brndiar]

Hi, just curious- how would look like a gear up landing with a M20C (not- retractable Step) on Concrete/Grass?

Would there be a tendency to make a left/right? turn upon a touchdown (non retractable Step on the right site)?

What is better for gear up landing- Grass? Concrete? Flaps fully down?  More danger for post impact Fire on Concrete?

Thanks, milos

[Hank]

No idea what effect the fixed step has, but the PO did it in my plane--never thought to ask him, and those who did discuss it with me didn't mention the "scrape-out" path at all.

General consensus seems to be that gear up landings on hard surfaces do less damage than those on soft surfaces, where things that hang down can dig into the surface and change your direction, to say nothing of the effect that uneven ground can have on the front of your plane [like hitting a small rise . . . ].

So try hard to always put the wheels down when landing!