Need help solving a problem

[chriscalandro]

1 hour ago, irishpilot said:

The OP asked for advice. My advice is just as relevant as yours. He should make an informed decision and there is a lot of knowledge on this forum, which is why it is so awesome. Please don't try to discredit others' advice on this forum. We are a Mooney family and should treat each other as such.

Fly Safe,
Safety Forum Mod
 

Your advice is based of assumptions and guesses. You have 0 knowledge about this airplane. There are a number of reasons why and how this airplane ended up in its current situation and there are just as many acceptable reasons as unacceptable.

Again, there is no reason to abandon a machine that has potential to be a good fit for someone. Suggestion no otherwise is not helpful in any way. 

I choose to be an optimist. 

[ExpressJetter]

So I talked to @orionflt on the phone and he was SUPER SUPER SUPER helpful.  Turns out the plane had 3 gear ups/major accidents total, one under this owner, and they only ever acknowledged the one I found via the NTSB in 1966.  Not only that, a mechanic who is now in jail (for MX fraud) owned the plane just prior to this owner.  Again, they never disclosed that this mechanic owned it, only that he worked on it once or twice.  

 

Tail # N6846U  if anyone is interested.    

[chriscalandro]

Ok, now run. 

[ExpressJetter]

9 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

Ok, now run. 

Deal seemed too good to be true, but like you said, gotta find out why before u just run without knowing why.

[orionflt]

I wouldn't call this an airplane to run from, but look at very closely because of the history and what isn't being disclosed. talking to the OP I am not sure if the info is on purpose or because there is a middle man. either way with out an annual and being in flying condition this is a risky venture for the asking price. 

[chriscalandro]

So are you saying the seller was being deceptive or not?  If not I’d retract my statement and go back to looking at it. 

If it passes inspection and solves your needs I don’t care if it had 10 gear ups. Was it fixed properly?

but if seller is deceptive that’s different. 

 

[ExpressJetter]

7 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

So are you saying the seller was being deceptive or not?  If not I’d retract my statement and go back to looking at it. 

If it passes inspection and solves your needs I don’t care if it had 10 gear ups. Was it fixed properly?

but if seller is deceptive that’s different. 

 

I feel their side was deceptive.  The guy I've been talking to isnt a broker,  but a life long friend of the owner and has flown the plane on and off fir the owner.   I find it hard to believe he didn't know about the 2003 grear up and the history of who owned it.  That along with the owners demands on where to get the annual makes me not want to pursue this one. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by ExpressJetter

[chriscalandro]

But didn’t he say you could take it to a place you both agreed?

 

its all about how you feel about it. All I’m saying is don’t let a bunch of people on the internet let you feel bad about your decisions. 

[steingar]

This feels hinky as all get out.  Moreover, who pays for the annual, the transportation and all the work?  If its the seller, then he's tied up to the tune of a couple AMUs in an airplane that was dishonestly presented and could be a money pit.  I wouldn't even touch it.  Sorry, too many Mooneys out there.  Anyone who tells you to go ahead with this I suspect never owned an airplane.

Now if the seller is willing to pony up transportation and annual costs, that might get me interested.  If the seller is that motivated and confident in his bird, I might bite.  But there should lbe an agreement in place vis a vis squawks, i.e. who pays for them.

An out of annual airplane with no plan for inspection and no ability move it to achieve inspection?  No way, no how, never never ever.

[ExpressJetter]

1 minute ago, chriscalandro said:

But didn’t he say you could take it to a place you both agreed?

 

its all about how you feel about it. All I’m saying is don’t let a bunch of people on the internet let you feel bad about your decisions. 

I am im agreement with you.  There is still more to the story tho.   He was trying to discourage me from taking it to the place we both finally agreed upon.   Saying the place is too expensive.  The deal was I pay for the annual,  and they had the option to repair or back out ( no refund)  they also wanted a 5k deposit incase I stiffed the mechanic they chose (talked them down to 2.5k)  

Seller is apparently a millionaire (according to his buddy)  making 5k a day,  but doesnt want to get an annual and insurance.....   just way too many things that just don't make sence. 

 

Plus I would be owning this plane for 5 years until I would move up top an f or j.   So selling might be difficult too with all these things. 

[chriscalandro]

That makes sense. 

I think asking for the seller to get it through annual and inspections first isn’t out of line. I’d do something along the lines of, if it goes well I’ll pay for it, if not it’s all yours. 

If seller is confident that shouldn’t be an issue. 

[DualRatedFlyer]

1 hour ago, chriscalandro said:

Your advice is based of assumptions and guesses. You have 0 knowledge about this airplane. There are a number of reasons why and how this airplane ended up in its current situation and there are just as many acceptable reasons as unacceptable.

Again, there is no reason to abandon a machine that has potential to be a good fit for someone. Suggestion no otherwise is not helpful in any way. 

I choose to be an optimist. 

idk, with the way this post is progressing, @irishpilot looks to have had a good gut intuition about this one.  I would take his advise not as assumptions and guesses, but as personal experience and lessons learned.  No reason to take it as more or less than that.  What happened to him might not happen to everyone, but I can guarantee based on my luck it would happen to me.  His opinion to run is just as valid as someone who has had good luck with these things opinion to keep pursuing it as a great deal. 

[ExpressJetter]

This is icing on the cake

[Andy95W]

Holy shit, that guy has big balls.  What exact words did you use to tell him to f**k off and ask his millionaire buddy for the $100?

[ExpressJetter]

1 minute ago, Andy95W said:

Holy shit, that guy has big balls.  What exact words did you use to tell him to f**k off and ask his millionaire buddy for the $100?

I thought I was nice about it

[chrisk]

1 minute ago, ExpressJetter said:

This is icing on the cake

I wouldn't even bother to respond.   This whole thing should have been simple.  The owner makes his plane airworthy by by getting an annual completed by who ever at his cost.  He needs to do this no matter who ultimately buys the plane.  Then you pay for an inspection with the mechanic of your choice.   --If your inspections finds something wrong, you get to re-negotiate.  If its an airworthy item most rational sellers will pay to fix it.  If its not an airworthy item ,most will not pay to fix it.    What is considered airworthy can be a bit of a judgement call: hangar rash, nicked prop, and worn tires come to mind. 

[DualRatedFlyer]

19 minutes ago, ExpressJetter said:

I thought I was nice about it

tell him you will put it in the mail tomorrow and it should bet there in 3-5 business days.  Sit big and enjoy the thought of him walking to his mailbox eagerly every day expecting beer money only to find papa john coupons and credit card offers. 

[Shadrach]

15 hours ago, thinwing said:

His Insurence is null because aircraft is out of annual and thus non airworthy.I would tell him to put it back in annual than you take it to whomever for pre buy.

That is not the case with my policy or any that I’m aware of. The aircraft is indeed covered whether in annual or not. Are you of the opinion that any aircraft flying under a ferry permit is uninsured? Where did you get your information?

Edited September 13, 2019 by Shadrach

[ExpressJetter]

6 minutes ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

tell him you will put it in the mail tomorrow and it should bet there in 3-5 business days.  Sit big and enjoy the thought of him walking to his mailbox eagerly every day expecting beer money only to find papa john coupons and credit card offers. 

almost did this

[gsxrpilot]

I would tell him that he owes you $500 for the time you spent relying on his information about an airplane that in the end turned out to be completely false. And for your time to go research and find the correct information other places. So on balance you'll expect to see a check in the amount of $400 sent to you within the next week.

[steingar]

I'd tell him I'm charging my consulting rate for all the research I have to do.  Last time I contracted it was 0.8 AMU/day.  Should shut him up hard.

[Danb]

I’d just ignore the a-h, and be on your way, why make yourself look petty, it’s unreal how many jerks are out there, like all the scammers trying to get to the seniors credit card info.

[thinwing]

9 hours ago, Shadrach said:

That is not the case with my policy or any that I’m aware of. The aircraft is indeed covered whether in annual or not. Are you of the opinion that any aircraft flying under a ferry permit is uninsured? Where did you get your information?

Nope

[ExpressJetter]

For people that have followed this and want a good laugh.

[0TreeLemur]

Wow.  My younger self would be tempted to zip off a zinger.  My current self just says "delete" and ignore.   It's weird that he somehow thinks that he's entitled to money for a deal that fell through because he withheld key information.   I've never heard of anything like that.  Feeling entitled is a curse.  Great thing you ran from this "deal".