carusoam Posted September 5, 2019 Report Posted September 5, 2019 11 hours ago, mike_elliott said: Anthony, you forgot what I consider the most important point 1) Prebuy the owner. Most owners of quality planes for sale encourage a prebuy by a competent Mooney expert. They wont be afraid of something going "bad" during a prebuy, as they have proactively maintained the plane. nits such as rusty screws are not airworthy items and should have been identified by the purchaser as a deal breaker prior to ordering a prebuy. Personally, I wouldn't buy a Mooney if the owner would not allow the mechanic of my choosing to do the prebuy. The conversation would be had in the first contact with the owner. Subsequent conversations may or may not follow based on this. Yes if it is an under 6 figure plane, you know you will have a lot of time related issues that keep it from being a new plane. You are after the airworthy items and show stoppers like corrosion, engine metal, etc. and you need to have someone who knows Mooneys well enough to know where to look. Mike, Thanks for covering this one so elegantly... It fell off my list, when the words weren’t coming together very well... Best regards, -a- Quote
RogueOne Posted September 6, 2019 Report Posted September 6, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 6:16 AM, gsxrpilot said: The pool of good vintage Mooneys is just too small to limit the search to "local" aircraft. And the investment is too significant not to get a knowledgeable, Mooney expert to do the pre-buy. (It's likely that the level of investment or financial exposure for someone buying a $50K Mooney is exactly the same as someone buying a $250K Mooney) There is a handful of shops across the country that I would trust to do a pre-buy. And a seller who wouldn't agree to my choice, wouldn't get a second look from me. I would agree to a purchase price, put 10% of that in cash on deposit with the seller, and have a very detailed, signed purchase agreement. But then the plane would go to the shop of my choice for the pre-buy. If not, then the owner just failed my "pre-buy" and I'm moving on to someone who isn't afraid of what a good shop might find. I am totally good with you and Mike NOT buying my plane. Regional Mooney shops are competent and available for a pre buy. I have zero interest, as a seller, in having my $60ish k airplane flown thousands of miles to “your” beloved shop. If that is your litmus test, I am out. Next buyer... Quote
Guest Posted September 6, 2019 Report Posted September 6, 2019 I think that most Mooney “Experts” could do a PPI just about anywhere. While it’s nice to have the plane in your own shop, it’s not always required. Sometimes it’s not practical to move the plane long distances and sometimes “Experts” are simply too busy to spend days away from their shop. If both parties want to make the sale, they’ll work a compromise. Clarence Quote
mike_elliott Posted September 6, 2019 Report Posted September 6, 2019 2 hours ago, M20Doc said: I think that most Mooney “Experts” could do a PPI just about anywhere. While it’s nice to have the plane in your own shop, it’s not always required. Sometimes it’s not practical to move the plane long distances and sometimes “Experts” are simply too busy to spend days away from their shop. If both parties want to make the sale, they’ll work a compromise. Clarence Clarence is one of the guys I would trust to do an "expert" PPI, but I doubt he would come to the states to do it at your field. As he states, sometimes "experts" are simply too busy to spend days away from their shop, as I am sure Clarence is. Finding an "expert" that has the time to travel to BFE with his tools will be a bigger trick than finding a quality plane and quality owner to argue about it with. 1 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted September 6, 2019 Report Posted September 6, 2019 5 hours ago, RogueOne said: I am totally good with you and Mike NOT buying my plane. Regional Mooney shops are competent and available for a pre buy. I have zero interest, as a seller, in having my $60ish k airplane flown thousands of miles to “your” beloved shop. If that is your litmus test, I am out. Next buyer... Don't worry, it's not just Mike and I, but the dozens of buyers we speak with every year. I'm all for finding a shop close to the location of the airplane. I've never needed to move a plane "thousands of miles" for a good pre-buy. But 500 miles is certainly a possibility. Not having to move the airplane very far, certainly cuts down on the cost of then pre-buy. But more important than the cost is getting an honest and expert evaluation from a shop you trust, or in your words "beloved" shop. 1 Quote
RogueOne Posted September 6, 2019 Report Posted September 6, 2019 3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: Don't worry, it's not just Mike and I, but the dozens of buyers we speak with every year. I'm all for finding a shop close to the location of the airplane. I've never needed to move a plane "thousands of miles" for a good pre-buy. But 500 miles is certainly a possibility. Not having to move the airplane very far, certainly cuts down on the cost of then pre-buy. But more important than the cost is getting an honest and expert evaluation from a shop you trust, or in your words "beloved" shop. Not. Worried that is. Quote
AlexAk Posted February 21, 2021 Report Posted February 21, 2021 How come no one has mentioned what the PPI (average) cost might be! What should be a reasonable PPI cost for a late 60's (68/69) or a mid to late 70's (75 - 83) 180 horse to 200 or 210 horse Mooney M20C to M20K ? Quote
carusoam Posted February 21, 2021 Report Posted February 21, 2021 28 minutes ago, AlexAk said: How come no one has mentioned what the PPI (average) cost might be! What should be a reasonable PPI cost for a late 60's (68/69) or a mid to late 70's (75 - 83) 180 horse to 200 or 210 horse Mooney M20C to M20K ? Because there is no standard for PPIs... it exists to protect your wallet.... how much protection is up to you to decide... Pick your favorite mechanic... decide how much you want to pay.... Decide on the most expensive things to check for damage... Decide how many hours you want worked... There is so much flexibility, you can skip the whole thing... Or buy a very active plane that is so new, that the risks are so low.... Or have enough dollars elsewhere, that the risk you are taking is small... Compare the cost of the plane... is it as much as your new car? Or is it as much as your new house? It is a constant comparison to... How much do you want to risk? That is why there is no average cost for a PPI to discuss... Best regards, -a- Quote
chriscalandro Posted February 23, 2021 Report Posted February 23, 2021 On 9/6/2019 at 11:12 AM, gsxrpilot said: Don't worry, it's not just Mike and I, but the dozens of buyers we speak with every year. I'm all for finding a shop close to the location of the airplane. I've never needed to move a plane "thousands of miles" for a good pre-buy. But 500 miles is certainly a possibility. Not having to move the airplane very far, certainly cuts down on the cost of then pre-buy. But more important than the cost is getting an honest and expert evaluation from a shop you trust, or in your words "beloved" shop. If you want someone specific to do the pre buy, pay for that specific person to come to the airplane. You don’t have to fly the airplane 500 miles for a prebuy. And I wouldn’t call it “normal“ to do so. I don’t care who does it, I DO care that you just took my airplane away for a significant amount of time, added maintenance expenses (time oil, etc), and if something comes up, how am I getting my airplane back? Quote
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