M20C leaky tank

[Huitt3106]

Ive been looking at a Mooney that I had a pre-buy completed by a mechanic that was recommended to me by a couple local shops/ other mechanics. Once I got here I found his work wasn’t nearly as detailed as I’d hoped and found a few squawks. But, the mechanic isn’t what this question is about. I specifically asked a couple weeks ago for them to put fuel in the tanks and check for leaks. Well, they did but only half filled them, I suppose I should have been more specific. When I got here we went ahead and filled the tanks the rest of the way and low and behold fuel starts dripping from under the airplane. We did some digging and found it to be on the wing root (top) and right at the spar. It’s not a weep, but a drip and gets the carpet wet in the cockpit closest to the drip. My two questions are: Can this aircraft be safely flown with a drip into the cockpit (with the intention of having it patched by my mechanic with MSC experience)? Does anybody have a recent quote for resealing a tank on an M20C if it comes down to that? I’m well aware this has been discussed before and know this is a can of worms I’m opening with a chainsaw. I searched through the forums and haven’t been able to find a definitive answer. Oh by the way, I flew across the country to pick up the airplane so I’m stuck on the opposite coast trying to figure this out. Thanks!

 

 

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[Huitt3106]

This is a photo of the location. Looks like somebody tried to improperly patch it from the outside in the past.


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[N201MKTurbo]

Just put 10 gallons or so in that tank and fly on the other to get it to the shop.

[Hank]

Strip and reseal both tanks in a C should run 7AMU or a smidgen more. If they've not been done in the last 15 years or so, may as well do both at once and save the second downtime.

The question of concern is how fast is the fuel seeping into the cabin? You can use that tank first and not fill it completely until fixing it, but how will reduced fuel affect your across-the-country flight plan?

[Huitt3106]

It would definitely add fuel stops to the trip. The flight is from Washington state to Virginia.


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[Mjknick@gmail.com]

Get on a flight home and find a better bird to purchase.


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[David Lloyd]

47 minutes ago, Mjknick@gmail.com said:

Get on a flight home and find a better bird to purchase.


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Yeah, what else was hidden?

[chriscalandro]

If that is the only leak and you know where it is, it shouldn't be that big a deal to patch it. 

[Skates97]

50 minutes ago, Mjknick@gmail.com said:

Get on a flight home and find a better bird to purchase.


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My concern would be if someone tried patching the tank from the outside, what other shortcuts have been taken on maintenance. 

[lamont337]

From your description it would seem that the seller knew about the leak. So if I was the buyer I'd have to wonder what else is he/she isn't telling me. 

If you decide to proceed, you are likely very near KTTD Troutdale, OR. Advanced Aircraft is a well respected MSC around here and they do full strip/reseals. I had them do one side of my C back around 2015 or so, initial quote was $3750. In my case I needed some nutplates replaced on the tank panels that pushed the price up a few hundred if I remember correctly. Completely satisfied with their work.

If you can negotiate the cost of repair into the purchase price maybe you'll come out ahead. Either way it needs to be fixed and there is downtime/travel costs involved.

Good luck-

https://www.advancedaircraftpdx.com/fuel-tank-services

[Huitt3106]

My concern would be if someone tried patching the tank from the outside, what other shortcuts have been taken on maintenance. 

That’s definitely my concern. The current owner is just an heir of the aircraft after the previous owner passed away. The mechanic had good reviews from those I talked to locally but it seems he may not be very thorough nor very experienced in Mooneys. Kinda frustrating to fly across the country for this... It’s a great looking airplane with great avionics. It did sit for a while but that’s another thread and I’m aware of the detractors there.


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[Huitt3106]

From your description it would seem that the seller knew about the leak. So if I was the buyer I'd have to wonder what else is he/she isn't telling me. 
If you decide to proceed, you are likely very near KTTD Troutdale, OR. Advanced Aircraft is a well respected MSC around here and they do full strip/reseals. I had them do one side of my C back around 2015 or so, initial quote was $3750. In my case I needed some nutplates replaced on the tank panels that pushed the price up a few hundred if I remember correctly. Completely satisfied with their work.
If you can negotiate the cost of repair into the purchase price maybe you'll come out ahead. Either way it needs to be fixed and there is downtime/travel costs involved.
Good luck-
https://www.advancedaircraftpdx.com/fuel-tank-services

Thanks! I just called and spoke with Greg and he quoted $4,250 for a single tank reseal.


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[Bob_Belville]

I would confirm that the fuel coming into the cabin is from a tank leak. It is very common for the fuel sender plate to leak directly into the cabin in the side wall be low the door (And the same location on the pilot side). An easy, inexpensive fix.

[Huitt3106]

I guess I’ll throw out the other issue. When I called originally, the current owner stated that the aircraft had been sitting for 2 years but hangared. I am aware of the issues but was willing to work with it due to airframe condition and avionics. When I got here the last oil change was in 2012 and it has only had 9 hours put on it since then. It seems time flies...


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[Huitt3106]

I would confirm that the fuel coming into the cabin is from a tank leak. It is very common for the fuel sender plate to leak directly into the cabin in the side wall be low the door (And the same location on the pilot side). An easy, inexpensive fix.

The mechanic and I pulled the seats and carpet back and found the leak actively dripping. It’s dripping from the top aft side of the tank. They did a major cage restoration on it back in 2012 and must have thrown the patch on it then.


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[DXB]

5 minutes ago, Huitt3106 said:

I guess I’ll throw out the other issue. When I called originally, the current owner stated that the aircraft had been sitting for 2 years but hangared. I am aware of the issues but was willing to work with it due to airframe condition and avionics. When I got here the last oil change was in 2012 and it has only had 9 hours put on it since then. It seems time flies...


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Seems pretty scary.  Is he still the current owner?   If so can you still back out of this deal?

[Huitt3106]

Seems pretty scary.  Is he still the current owner?   If so can you still back out of this deal?

We had a 24 hour purchase agreement that has since been extended (since finding the leaking tank) that basically said I would put several hours on it and change the oil/ cut the filter to check for metals. I was getting ready to fly it when we looked down and saw fuel dripping a good bit. I could still back out.


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[lamont337]

1 minute ago, Huitt3106 said:

Thanks! I just called and spoke with Greg and he quoted $4,250 for a single tank reseal.


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Did he mention the schedule? Most reseal shops have a little bit of a backlog, from weeks to several months. Being an MSC they could give the plane a once over/post purchase inspection while it's in for reseal as well.

Let us know how it goes, always happy to see someone get an old bird flying again.

3 minutes ago, Huitt3106 said:

I guess I’ll throw out the other issue. When I called originally, the current owner stated that the aircraft had been sitting for 2 years but hangared. I am aware of the issues but was willing to work with it due to airframe condition and avionics. When I got here the last oil change was in 2012 and it has only had 9 hours put on it since then. It seems time flies...


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Sounds like the tanks are only one of the big ticket items of immediate concern...

[DXB]

1 minute ago, Huitt3106 said:

We had a 24 hour purchase agreement that has since been extended (since finding the leaking tank) that basically said I would put several hours on it and change the oil/ cut the filter to check for metals. I was getting ready to fly it when we looked down and saw fuel dripping a good bit. I could still back out.

If the tanks were really sitting dry for that long, I think a full strip and reseal seems inevitable here? Others here will have more knowledge in this area. An engine sitting that long should be priced as a runout - not making visible metal in the filter first few hours of operation will not provide any reassurance regarding its longevity.  

[Mjknick@gmail.com]

You will find that the camshafts will go flat and your 180hp will make barely 100hp and run rough. We had a fellow end up in Camarillo for fuel with his newly purchased cream puff that after an hour needed an engine and come to find out after sitting whilst an overhaul be performed all fuel had leaked out of her. Then our local perfectionist did a reseal. This bird was down for months. You need to take a step back. If this has been sitting not good.


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[Mjknick@gmail.com]

Get the hell out of there!


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[Oldguy]

There is a list kept by @gsxrpilot which covers planes bought that should not have been bought based on the purchase price and the cost to make them airworthy, safe, and reliable. The purchase price on these planes is ALWAYS a great deal. Unfortunately, the costs once they are purchased often are multiples of the purchase price.

Don't add to that list.

[Huitt3106]

There is a list kept by [mention=11970]gsxrpilot[/mention] which covers planes bought that should not have been bought based on the purchase price and the cost to make them airworthy, safe, and reliable. The purchase price on these planes is ALWAYS a great deal. Unfortunately, the costs once they are purchased often are multiples of the purchase price.
Don't add to that list.

That’s a very good point. It’s always a coin toss on an aircraft purchase but much worse odds on one that has been sitting. I knew the risks on it having sat a couple years but 7 years was much more than originally advertised


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[cliffy]

The red flags are flying here! Your money, your choice but history reveals many truths on this forum. 

The best book on buying airplanes is-

How to Buy a Used Aircraft Without Taking a Dive by Unterman.

Out of print but findable. 

With good homework one never needs to fly across the country before one finds a good airplane. Read the book!

 

[Bob_Belville]

There is little in life that's more expensive than a bargain airplane.

Folks seldom heed the advise often offered here to buy the best example of the make and model you're shopping for. Pay a fair price for it. Still no guarantee but the odds are several times better.