TailBeacon ADS-B vs. Anticollision Light

[SpamPilot]

Let's say, for sake of argument, that I'd like to comply with the 2020 ADS-B mandate by installing a uAvionix TailBeacon.  (assume I'm willing to live with the limitations of not flying in the flight levels or internationally)

The TailBeacon has an integral position light, but no strobe.  My M20K Rocket has wingtip strobes and a tail strobe.  So I'd have to give up the tail strobe.  Since my wingtip strobes are enclosed, they don't shine rearwards.  What do I do about rear anticollision light coverage?

I can't seem to find an option for adding a rear anticollision light without negating the cost and installation simplicity of the TailBeacon.  Moreover, I can't seem to find an option that doesn't require installation of something huge, ugly, and heavy.  A teardrop flushmount strobe-only LED anticollision light for dorsal and ventral mounting or on the horizontal stabilizer tips might be the ticket, but it doesn't seem to exist. (?)

Have I overlooked something?

[vorlon1]

So let me see if I understand: you have a rocket, and you are worried about getting run down from the REAR?

<grin>

Edited January 21, 2019 by vorlon1
spelling

[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, SpamPilot said:

Let's say, for sake of argument, that I'd like to comply with the 2020 ADS-B mandate by installing a uAvionix TailBeacon.  (assume I'm willing to live with the limitations of not flying in the flight levels or internationally)

The TailBeacon has an integral position light, but no strobe.  My M20K Rocket has wingtip strobes and a tail strobe.  So I'd have to give up the tail strobe.  Since my wingtip strobes are enclosed, they don't shine rearwards.  What do I do about rear anticollision light coverage?

I can't seem to find an option for adding a rear anticollision light without negating the cost and installation simplicity of the TailBeacon.  Moreover, I can't seem to find an option that doesn't require installation of something huge, ugly, and heavy.  A teardrop flushmount strobe-only LED anticollision light for dorsal and ventral mounting or on the horizontal stabilizer tips might be the ticket, but it doesn't seem to exist. (?)

Have I overlooked something?

Wouldn’t you be spending just as much by finding a new light to act as a rearward-facing beacon, paying an A&P to drill the hole and mount it, and then also installing the tailbeacon ADS/B?  What other options do you have for 2020 compliance?

Steve

[Hank]

4 hours ago, SpamPilot said:

Let's say, for sake of argument, that I'd like to comply with the 2020 ADS-B mandate by installing a uAvionix TailBeacon.  (assume I'm willing to live with the limitations of not flying in the flight levels or internationally)

The TailBeacon has an integral position light, but no strobe.  My M20K Rocket has wingtip strobes and a tail strobe.  So I'd have to give up the tail strobe.  Since my wingtip strobes are enclosed, they don't shine rearwards.  What do I do about rear anticollision light coverage?

I can't seem to find an option for adding a rear anticollision light without negating the cost and installation simplicity of the TailBeacon.  Moreover, I can't seem to find an option that doesn't require installation of something huge, ugly, and heavy.  A teardrop flushmount strobe-only LED anticollision light for dorsal and ventral mounting or on the horizontal stabilizer tips might be the ticket, but it doesn't seem to exist. (?)

Have I overlooked something?

Why isn't the tail beacon enough light? Granted it's no strobe, but it's brighter than what a lot of us have. It's at least LED. 

[bradp]

You’d need a top and bottom fuselage mounted anti collision light if you removed the tail strobe. 

You’re looking at $1000 in additional parts and maybe 5-8 hour labor plus the install cost of the ADS-B.  At that point save your tail strobe and go with a 978 UAT or a transponder based solution. The cost savings for the tail beacon is not there for your application. 

[Hank]

32 minutes ago, bradp said:

You’d need a top and bottom fuselage mounted anti collision light if you removed the tail strobe. 

??? All I have is a belly blinker, and nav lights sunk into the same wingtips visible from the front only. The belly strobe is visible all around, but not from above. Don't recall seing many planes with strobes above and below; a few, but certainly not many, even those without wingtip strobes.

[bradp]

Hank it has to do with the year in which your plane was manufactured... that determines the coverage rules. You only need 30-deg up and down but 360 degrees around. 

If OP has a rocket he may not have a rotating beacon.  He requires 360 degrees of anti collision around and 75-degrees up and down, however.  Regardless removing his rewards nav/strobe and replacing it with a nav only deletes his 360 degrees of ACL coverage.  Therefore the only way he will get 360-degrees horizontally and 75-vertically is with a top and bottom bottom fuselage mounted rotating beacon solution. 

[SkyTrekker]

Slightly off-topic, but if I understand @bradp , given my 1970 E with protruding (not enclosed) wingtip nav/strobes and rear nav, I could remove my coffee grinder rotating red beacon on the belly and still be compliant,  given the rest of my setup?  Seems like removing that large protrusion would improve airflow/speed a bit.

Edited January 21, 2019 by SkyTrekker

[Bryan]

14 hours ago, vorlon1 said:

So let me see if I understand: you have a rocket, and you are worried about getting run down from the REAR?

<grin>

Only from and Acclaim or Ultra

[bradp]

@SkyTrekker the only things that might run into coffee grinder presence would be 1) ground operations with just the strobes (annoying for others)  2) whether the coffee grinder is on the TCDS and whether the IA/AP would then consider it a major modification 3) redundancy- if strobe(s) go out and you have a 1970 or earlier you may be legal still...

[cujet]

SP, that would be a no-go, as removal of the tail strobe would not be compliant and I can't think of any options right now. 

The next easiest answer might be the KT-74 hooked into your WAAS GPS. If you have a KT-76 transponder, it's nearly plug n play. 

[SkyTrekker]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

@SkyTrekker the only things that might run into coffee grinder presence would be 1) ground operations with just the strobes (annoying for others)  2) whether the coffee grinder is on the TCDS and whether the IA/AP would then consider it a major modification 3) redundancy- if strobe(s) go out and you have a 1970 or earlier you may be legal still...

Good points, @bradp . I just read the TCDS doc, and we are good there. And leaving the strobes off during ground ops is permitted. The system redundancy point might need addressing, though, as you suggest.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, bradp said:

@SkyTrekker the only things that might run into coffee grinder presence would be 1) ground operations with just the strobes (annoying for others)  2) whether the coffee grinder is on the TCDS and whether the IA/AP would then consider it a major modification 3) redundancy- if strobe(s) go out and you have a 1970 or earlier you may be legal still...

Another thing I don't understand:  the FARs clearly spell out what is considered a Major Modification for which a 337 is required, but there are many, many references to IA's opinions that minor changes require 337s because they "consider" them to be Major Modifications. Never understood this . . . . .

[Marauder]

Another thing I don't understand:  the FARs clearly spell out what is considered a Major Modification for which a 337 is required, but there are many, many references to IA's opinions that minor changes require 337s because they "consider" them to be Major Modifications. Never understood this . . . . .

And the day we understand this, the Earth will stop rotating. I particularly never liked how one FSDO thought something was fine and another didn’t. I know a couple years back I read that they were trying standardize this. Not sure it went anywhere.


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[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, SkyTrekker said:

Good points, @bradp . I just read the TCDS doc, and we are good there. And leaving the strobes off during ground ops is permitted. The system redundancy point might need addressing, though, as you suggest.

It's not just the TCDS, anything different from the relevant AD's and specifications in the service manual could and would also be considered major alterations as well.

[SkyTrekker]

16 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

It's not just the TCDS, anything different from the relevant AD's and specifications in the service manual could and would also be considered major alterations as well.

Makes sense.  However I'm not aware of any specific ADs or service manual specs that that speak to it. In fact, that's the sort of information I posted here to learn.  Are you aware of any?  

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, SkyTrekker said:

Makes sense.  However I'm not aware of any specific ADs or service manual specs that that speak to it. In fact, that's the sort of information I posted here to learn.  Are you aware of any?  

Nope, my copy of the maintenance manual seems to be missing a few pages in the lighting section...

[kortopates]

The tailbeacon option just isn't compatible with the Rocket or any Midbody or longbody Mooney. In any aircraft certified into the flight levels, even if you did decide you didn't need that capability and wanted to saved a few bucks now with perhaps a a AdsB tail beacon with strobe capability somehow (that presently doesn't exist) expect when you go to sell it that any new prospective buyer is going to ding the price down accordingly to correct this issue so that it can be operated in the flight levels again - costing your more $ in the end. So it's either pay now or pay later. Resale-ability is something to consider with every mod or upgrade. 

[m20j]

I have a ‘77 midbody J with a Grimes incandescent bulb, no strobe on the tail. 

 

Why would the tailbeacon be incompatible?

On 1/21/2019 at 1:05 PM, kortopates said:

The tailbeacon option just isn't compatible with the Rocket or any Midbody or longbody Mooney. In any aircraft certified into the flight levels, even if you did decide you didn't need that capability and wanted to saved a few bucks now with perhaps a a AdsB tail beacon with strobe capability somehow (that presently doesn't exist) expect when you go to sell it that any new prospective buyer is going to ding the price down accordingly to correct this issue so that it can be operated in the flight levels again - costing your more $ in the end. So it's either pay now or pay later. Resale-ability is something to consider with every mod or upgrade. 

 

[kortopates]

I have a ‘77 midbody J with a Grimes incandescent bulb, no strobe on the tail. 

 

Why would the tailbeacon be incompatible?

 

Since your J is early enough to not have wingtips you are fine and should have no problem. All with wingtips though need a strobe in the rear since the wingtips house the strobe and prevent them from being visible from the rear. The current production Mooneys also use an external mounted light that may not need a strobe in the rear and thus may work - but they all have ceilings above 18k.

 

 

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[Niko182]

pretty sure the POH states that you need 3 strobe lights working for night flights in the equipment list.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Niko182 said:

pretty sure the POH states that you need 3 strobe lights working for night flights in the equipment list.

As mentioned, early 201s came with only wingtip strobes.   Mine has wingtip strobes only and no beacon.

[m20j]

2 hours ago, Niko182 said:

pretty sure the POH states that you need 3 strobe lights working for night flights in the equipment list.

 

44 minutes ago, EricJ said:

As mentioned, early 201s came with only wingtip strobes.   Mine has wingtip strobes only and no beacon.

Same here.  Flat wingtips, 2 strobes there, none on the tail.  Looks like this mid-body configuration could use a tailbeacon.

[Niko182]

18 minutes ago, m20j said:

 

Same here.  Flat wingtips, 2 strobes there, none on the tail.  Looks like this mid-body configuration could use a tailbeacon.

is it de pedant on the wingtip type?

[ArtVandelay]

pretty sure the POH states that you need 3 strobe lights working for night flights in the equipment list.

I believe the only requirement is 360° coverage, the winglets seem to block them from about 5 thru 7 o’clock, mine were added by mod works, maybe the standards were different back, I ended up adding tail LED strobe to insure coverage.


Tom