Refurbishing a basket case

[0TreeLemur]

Since we bought our M20C 11 months ago for less than the cost of a new Toyota Tacoma, my co-pilot and I have done a ton of work under the watchful supervision of a really cool A&P.    We bought her in flying condition, but with a 1967 panel and 1985 radio stack.  Now she's got a contemporary engine monitor, new panel layout, and WAAS GPS with ADS-B transponder.   It has been really fun work doing these upgrades, and the down time has been a month here and there.   We still have managed to fly over 100 h this year.   Considering the advice of others, I think you would do well to buy a very affordable C model, use the money saved by not buying an F to modernize rather than repair.    It's been great for us.  Best of luck with your decision.

[Hephaestus]

@carusoam Yep, that's the plan - and I can't think of better motivation to keep going than getting off the ground and getting out to have fun... 

Brain gets worked out all day every day it seems. Lol, the USA today crossword has been my lunch time de-stress since '04. God I feel old saying that. 

I'm not going to stress about the diseases, I'm refocusing on enjoying life in the near term not waiting for some day down the road.

[laytonl]

Sorry to hear about your condition.  I heard a sermon recently where the preacher said,

“We all know our days are numbered.  What’s important is how we number our days.”

Make sure you have a plan for each day and to that end I agree with the others; buy something that is already flyable but needs improving.  That way you can fly and fix which will keep you busy.

good luck,

 

lee

 

[steingar]

13 hours ago, Hephaestus said:

@carusoam nothing's proven to hold it off. He gave me a huge stack of research and the usual quit smoking eat healthy get excercise, don't be a couch potato. Eat fish and omega 3s... Excercise your brain, have you seen this app?

  But yeah some kind of brain scan coming up, there's some drug in testing he'd like to try me on - prevents accumulation of a protein inhibitor or somesuch? Since Dad was a severe case, and I'm starting to show some early symptoms - the neurologist would like to track things a little closer...

Alzheimer's is clearly a protein folding disease, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Parkinson's was as well.  There are some drugs that are supposed to keep it at bay to some degree, but the degree is small.  Your doc is right, the best way to keep it at bay is to take care of yourself, good diet, lots of exercise and lots of fun cognitive things to do.  Any kind of craft project will fit that bill. Remember to hang it up if things progress.

I really feel your pain, I'm in the same boat as you.  All we can do is what we can do.  Good luck.  

[Hephaestus]

Yep, in some ways I'm a bit thankful. It's in some ways nice to know what the future likely holds. I know to make today count - because tomorrow for me definitely isn't a given. It's too easy to put off what really matters - for stupid things that won't. 

Last year I was stressed about finding a way to get back into fully owning a house to retire in. Pretty sure I'm going to downsize into a minimalist apartment now. I don't need to leave things behind - I'd rather spend the time with the kids and expand their horizons, show them what matters to me, learn and help them find out what matters to them. Do the things that really count.

Am I going to regret it? Nope even if I live to 104, pretty sure this will be the time of my life. Just got a midlife refocus instead of wishing I had done things differently.

3 m20 for sale near me, but all would be a real stretch on the budget plan. Which kind of sucks.

Edit and yeah, GP and neurologist know about my plans - neither object at this point. I'm sure they'll be keeping closer tabs on me and we all know how fast they can make driver's and pilots licenses disappear these days... And I'm crazy not stupid

Edited September 26, 2018 by Hephaestus

[Shadrach]

On 9/25/2018 at 2:23 PM, Hephaestus said:

I'm always good for a project. I'd go nuts without, so in this case it seems like better to attack a Mooney project that serves me than something else. I'm always doing something, I don't sit still, or watch TV... 

Mission wise - simple, long hauls from here to somewhere interesting (500+ mi) for 2-3 days stretches with 2 kidlets aboard. Probably not IFR but we'll see how that plays out and what equipment comes with the purchase. It's been 25 years but I tend to do my long haul driving at night, wouldn't be surprised if that was my flying style too.

Medical - yep no guarantee. I could get hit by a truck tomorrow. Or I could live to 104. But at the moment, dad's neurologist suggested that I'm likely not to expect the later, and he will be following me every 6 months going forward.

The winter is my slow season at work, so I'll be doing PPL, that still leaves a fair bit of idle time that I can either invest in something unnecessary - I've been wanting to build an MGB forever too; or invest in time / labour into an aircraft. If I can get into an out of annual M20F - spend the time getting it cleaned up, that seems like a good plan doesn't it?

Keeping most older airplanes airworthy is a project.  A restoration is a job that you pay to have.  I've restored a couple of vehicles (all were terrestrial), it was gratifying to see the end result, but I would likely never do another because of the time involved.  It's one thing if you have a loved one that wants to actively participate; however, if traveling with your kids is the goal, get a flyable plane and get to it.

[Mcstealth]

On 9/25/2018 at 2:10 PM, DualRatedFlyer said:

M20F driver here - just completed first year of ownership.  The comments above are 100% spot on. 

Plenty of work left over to tinker and customize on an airplane that is airworthy and turnkey.  Buy affordable turnkey now - finish your PPL in it and then enjoy the classic upgrades - installing a new panel, new airtex seats and carpet, Bruce Jaeger interior, J style windscreen, one piece rear window, the infamous pee-tube, heck - even fixing the plastic panel cracks are enough to keep a man busy for the foreseeable future.  If you get bored with it, try your hand at making a new glareshield like the one fellow on here.  These things are great things to tinker with at the hanger and have your A&P signoff where required.   

The more time you can spend in the airplane instead of under it the better.  You will enjoy it more, complete your training faster, and be an all around better pilot.  If maintenance is your passion, then by all means buy a fixer-upper.  If you stare at the sky every time you hear an airplane fly by, then you need to buy something that enables you to join them. 

Been very happy with my M20F - wouldnt trade it for the world.   

Hey. Be careful with the word "infamous" around here.

[Raptor05121]

On 9/25/2018 at 7:44 PM, M20Doc said:

While a C might make good sense,  the cost of importing one to Canada is too great @ about $10k, plus 13% tax due at import.  He needs to find something already in the country and there are only 341 Mooney’s of all models registered here.

Clarence

side bar- how hard is it to import an airplane registered in the states? I ask because we have a C337 on the ramp with a N-number. After 2 months I asked the manager and he said it was purchased from a guy in Canada and awaiting export. 6 months later it has a large white vinyl sheet on the tail with new C-XXXX letters but still sitting.

[Hephaestus]

Just now, Raptor05121 said:

side bar- how hard is it to import an airplane registered in the states? I ask because we have a C337 on the ramp with a N-number. After 2 months I asked the manager and he said it was purchased from a guy in Canada and awaiting export. 6 months later it has a large white vinyl sheet on the tail with new C-XXXX letters but still sitting.

I've been reading about it, it's fairly straightforward up - but some of the documents and modifications can be a bear it would appear. 

Anyone know anything about this one?

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/winnipeg/1964-mooney-m20c-airplane/1338083340?utm_source=com.google.android.apps.docs&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_android

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

side bar- how hard is it to import an airplane registered in the states? I ask because we have a C337 on the ramp with a N-number. After 2 months I asked the manager and he said it was purchased from a guy in Canada and awaiting export. 6 months later it has a large white vinyl sheet on the tail with new C-XXXX letters but still sitting.

When we import an airplane for a client it is flown to our shop while still N numbered, the importation then happens in Canada.  Doing it remotely is possible but costs more.  The process is not overly difficult but it can take time.  Newer airplanes can be done in a few days, older ones can take months.

Clarence

[steingar]

On 9/26/2018 at 2:11 PM, Hephaestus said:

Yep, in some ways I'm a bit thankful. It's in some ways nice to know what the future likely holds.

I recall my last conversation with my sister, who passed away a few years ago from ALS.  I mentioned that the one upside of her illness was she didn't have to worry about Alzheimers, like the rest of her siblings.

Reminds me of a good joke.  The doctor tells has patient he has bad news.  The old gentleman says "what is it?"  The doctor says "you have Cancer?'  The old man says. "Is that all?".  The doctor says "no, you have Alzheimers too".  The old man says"that's horrible, but at least I don't have cancer".

[bonal]

Very sorry to read about your conditions but things like this remind me of one of my favorite quotes "tomorrow is promised to no one" and the best anyone can do is die without regret. I hope you find yourself in the airplane of your dreams soon.  You will find plenty to keep you busy tinkering as an owner and plenty to challenge your mind as a pilot. 

[Hephaestus]

I cope with things quite naturally through dark humor. I'm already upsetting my family with it

Got the nastiest look when I suggested I didn't need to stress about retirement savings anymore  or fighting with sibblings over mom's will! 

More excited about putting pins and post-its on a map with the stuff I want to do in the next years. Looking forward to spending more time with the kids and family. 

Someone commented yesterday about don't forget Europe, nope not forgotten, there's already a pin in narsarsuaq that ferry pilots show was bad - almost can't wait to make that approach. (In a few years time). Need my daughter to get a bit older before I take the longer hauls, so she remembers them.

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Hephaestus said:

I cope with things quite naturally through dark humor. I'm already upsetting my family with it

Got the nastiest look when I suggested I didn't need to stress about retirement savings anymore  or fighting with sibblings over mom's will! 

More excited about putting pins and post-its on a map with the stuff I want to do in the next years. Looking forward to spending more time with the kids and family. 

Someone commented yesterday about don't forget Europe, nope not forgotten, there's already a pin in narsarsuaq that ferry pilots show was bad - almost can't wait to make that approach. (In a few years time). Need my daughter to get a bit older before I take the longer hauls, so she remembers them.

 

This site has info on Atlantic routes.  

http://www.220kts.com/ferry-flights/atlantic-ferry-routes.html

Clarence

[Hephaestus]

Few years away  I'm better ignoring that for now lol thanks @M20Doc though!

So did my intro flight, other than having forgotten every procedure for engine management, and chart reading etc my actual flying skills weren't bad, coordinated turns, t&g, landed in a 15kt cross wind, still remember how to manage and stabilize approaches... But yeah, remembering to richen/lean cowl flaps etc not so much.

CFI suggested considering doing my training in a Mooney if that's where I'm headed - as it's all going to be procedures, engine management and refreshers.

Suggested I think about combining in IFR or night rating while I'm at it - as I'm probably going to get bored quick of running circuits PDQ, and ppl & rating hours can be combined(?)

Might have to find an insurance agent and see what they have to say... But I'm probably going to get hit hard for the first year or two anyway aren't I?

Edited September 29, 2018 by Hephaestus

[Hephaestus]

It was more.the reference to 2004, realizing that wasn't just a few years ago anymore.

[steingar]

Mrs. Steingar did the crossword in the Washington Post every day we lived in DC.  One of the things she misses about the East Coast.  Reading the Post is one of the very few things I miss.  That, and access to good bagels.

[Hephaestus]

Mmmm bagels...

Trying to find a place to PPI a M20F. 

It had 15yrs of service only at the MSC, but hasn't been there for the last 2ish. 

M20doc is too busy, debating if I should trust that the MSC did proper inspections for the corrosion ADs over those 15yrs, and run it to an average shop for PPI/annual... Or consider taking it to another MSC, or back to the local one. 

Giving me a headache lol. So are all these "Mooney? No we don't want to work on those" shops... Lol

[Hank]

9 minutes ago, Hephaestus said:

Trying to find a place to PPI a M20F. 

Put your location, or at least state or province, in your avatar and you may get recommendations. I've heard good things about Joey Cole at KDNN, but have no idea if N. Georgia would work for you or not.

[Hephaestus]

28 minutes ago, Hank said:

Put your location, or at least state or province, in your avatar and you may get recommendations. I've heard good things about Joey Cole at KDNN, but have no idea if N. Georgia would work for you or not.

Sure point out I haven't botherd to fill things in proper

Alberta Canada eh

[Hank]

40 minutes ago, Hephaestus said:

Sure point out I haven't botherd to fill things in proper

Alberta Canada eh

Check with Clarence, eh. He's the man, and he knows the others.

[FlyWalt]

I have two responses for you:

 

1. The project Mooney. I'd say GO FOR IT!!!! Building the memories of success in finding the right candidate aircraft, getting her home, enjoying the process of repairing and rehabbing her to flight worthiness is a wonderful way to go. I found our basket case in 2012 at the right price. Every milestone was worth it.

2. As to the traveling you'd like to do, for those longer trips, I work for a major airline and have a limited number of "buddy passes" available each year. They are standby passes and cost about 15 percent of the Y fare. Id be happy to make them available for the longer trips. PM me to discuss if you are interested.

[Hephaestus]

Yeah, still get equivalent of buddy passes in the family, for a few more years anyway (retirement benefits that predates CPAir - so you know that benefit is running out)

I know my son and I enjoy the journey as much as the destination if not more, so that's the intent. And allows my wanderlust nature to take over on occasion

[gsxrpilot]

I've got a contact for you in Alberta. I'll send you a PM.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Check with Clarence, eh. He's the man, and he knows the others.

There are only 2 MSC’s in Canada.  I’d heard that the western one was busy raking in “Petro bucks” and not too interested in little airplanes.  Not sure if that still the case or not.

Clarence