M016576 Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Personally, I think this is a great move forward (synthetic vision with wingXPro). Don't get me wrong- I understand that you can't use this as primary display (obviously), but hopefully this will put a bit of pressure on avionics manufacturers to continue to develop more low cost solutions for the little guy. What a great progression... first the Garmin units, then Aspen, then the iPad, and now further iPad device and software options. It's a great time to be a "little guy" in the aviation world! Quote
Cris Posted July 23, 2011 Author Report Posted July 23, 2011 There seems to be two camps of IPad folks: Those that have them & those that will have them. If one only used the IPad to replace their chart subscriptions they would get the Ipad for "free". If one we're to take all of their user manuals as well as their POH etc & load them into their Ipad they would pick up 20 lbs of useful load. This is in addition to all of the other useful aviation apps available on the IPad but unavailable on any of your panel mounted equipment. Spend some time with someone who has one ( I'll volunteer) & I believe you will become "one of those that will have them". Btw I place mine with the Ram mount on the co-pilot yoke facing me or leave it on my lap. WingX offers split screen capability as well for a number of different data display options. Quote
Cris Posted July 23, 2011 Author Report Posted July 23, 2011 In terms of glare I use an anti-glare shield plastic overlay which works just fine. Quote
tony Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Quote: danb35 Often wrong, seldom in doubt. Quote
alex Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Quote: allsmiles Functionally, the iPad is only an average navigator. Think about it. Should we really be playing with an iPad while flying ?! No software that I've seen, no Wing X, no Foreflight or anyone else, have any worthwhile navigational detail anyway. Quote
PTK Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 I underestimated you guys! With the exception of Cris, you guys are clearly only interested in an argument and not in an intelligent discussion. Let's get something clear and out of the way: I accept a discussion. I do not accept an argument. Really Alex. You really feel an iPad is the same as a 750 ? You are going to tell me that an iPad has a similar user interface as the 750 ?! The 750, a certified IFR WAAS GPS Nav Comm specifically designed for aviation whose logic has evolved for 15 years now, is comparable to an iPad ? Is there something in that artificially flavored apple Kool aid Alex ? Maybe the heat is getting to you ! The iPad is an excellent EFB. A reader for charts, plates, POH as Cris mentioned, maybe even checklists, etc etc. As such it reduces weight, is easy to use and can slide in a pocket behind the seat easily. You have an argument about that !! Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Quote: allsmiles I underestimated you guys! With the exception of Cris, you guys are clearly only interested in an argument and not in an intelligent discussion. Let's get something clear and out of the way: I accept a discussion. I do not accept an argument. Really Alex. You really feel an iPad is the same as a 750 ? You are going to tell me that an iPad has a similar user interface as the 750 ?! The 750, a certified IFR WAAS GPS Nav Comm specifically designed for aviation whose logic has evolved for 15 years now, is comparable to an iPad ? Is there something in that artificially flavored apple Kool aid Alex ? Maybe the heat is getting to you ! The iPad is an excellent EFB. A reader for charts, plates, POH as Cris mentioned, maybe even checklists, etc etc. As such it reduces weight, is easy to use and can slide in a pocket behind the seat easily. You have an argument about that !! Quote
PTK Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Quote: Parker_Woodruff Sincerely, The Grammar Police "To Correct and Serve" Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 Quote: allsmiles OK I'll stop putting in spaces!! It's been a while since I had a typing class. Sorry to trouble you occifer!! May I offer you a glazed donut?! Is that better? Quote
bnicolette Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 All I can say is that we use the iPad's in our everyday flying at our corporate flight department. I have been using EFB's since I flew for Flight Options back in 1999 and the iPad "IMO" is just so much better than anything I have used to date!! I have used the very first Fujitsu's thru the Motion computing tablets, both of them running Jeppsen products. They were nice but sometimes would crash which is why we always carried two of them on board. We have been using the iPad's consistently for the last 10 months running both Jeppesen and Foreflight and have NEVER had one problem with one of them crashing in that time. They are so user friendly and such a handy device to have. We also have charts on our EFIS displays, but honestly, we end up using the iPads more than not, especially since they have added the Geo referencing. It's amazing what they are doing with these things and I get to put it to use day in an out in my profession as a corporate pilot. Although I would not do this...........I guarantee that I could navigate off of one of the iPads with extreme precision. I have never lost a GPS signal even through the heated windshields with our external GPS and anytime I have looked at the iPad, the bearing track information is the very same as the FMS's. Go figure. Folks are out there spending thousands and thousands of dollars on new equipment and subscriptions when it can all be had for under $800. Even us......we are toying with the idea of updating our Falcon to the new Universal EFIS systems which will include synthetic vision and a nominal fee of 1.2 million??? Obviously it will be a much better quality on the Universal system, but when one is flying at 160 ktas, how crazy do we have to get?? I personally love the iPad's and the great "stuff" they keep throwing at us at minimal costs compared to the "old days" of general aviation upgrades. It's just amazing and I am loving it!!! Give me a working COM/ILS/a KNS80 so I can fly direct and an iPad and short of having to shoot a GPS approach, I am golden!! Don't get me wrong, the new stuff from Garmin is super, but for us poor folk, the iPad is our new Garmin and it gets upgraded constantly!! It's so cheap, that I am also now going to have to put Wing X on my iPad as well. Synthetic vision in my Mooney.....who would've thunk it???? Surely not this working man... Quote
David Mazer Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 I stole my wife's iPad to try it out. On bright days, with sunglasses on, I can't see the screen. Am I the only one? I use a Motion LS800 with an extra bright screen for my Seattle Avionics EFB and I can almost always see it fine. It has to be exceptionally bright for me to have difficulty. I agree there are some stability issues with any Windows product but when it is working (and that is the vast majority of the time) I can see it. Quote
Txbyker Posted July 23, 2011 Report Posted July 23, 2011 The iPad just offers so much utility other than just navigation. I use it for preflight. The weather is simple to understand and to get the big picture. Plot your course with approaches and arrivals and file at the same time in a matter of minutes. Flip over to the internet call up Flightaware and see if your plan was accepted by ATC and if not what course they are going to tell you to fly. Land at a destination airport and use Google maps to find your way around at the destination, book hotels, etc. Quote
PTK Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Quote: alex Would that be an apple cider donut??!! Or did Alex want that instead!! Quote
fantom Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Interesting, since conflicting ideas, dissenting viewpoints, differing opinions are healthy and a really good learning experience on MooneySpace. They stretch our minds, broaden our perspectives, help us make better, more informed, personal choices on equipment, flying techniques, and everything else. There is, however, a difference between disagreeing, and being disagreeable. For some, every conflicting viewpoint seems to be an invitation to do battle; sans facts, only personal opinion; that grows tiresome when it becomes habitual instead of thoughtful. Challenging another persons choices, perceptions and viewpoints should be done without making them feel attacked, inferior, or condescended. Only when someone is respectful, can they gain respect. Most of use don't have access to Novocain. Based on this "discussion", I plan to use my iPad much more often :-))) Talk about conflict - - Silvia says we have to leave for Church; I want to go flying. Quote
alex Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Costs being equal somehow I really trust the Garmin more than the Aspen----this was after mooniac had answered your question in great detail. Did you consider the G500 in your desicion process? Also a bigger display is definitly better in my opinion. With the small Aspens I found I had to be directly in front of them. With a bigger area display this wasn't the case. --- um, they are in front of you last time I checked and perhaps all three screens may be a tad, dare I say, BIIGGER than yours. But it's not my choice! Congratulations and enjoy!! ----I wouldn't have done it! congratulations anyways! Aspen is great. I salute them for their efforts. They have done a great job in bringing to market a good product. However they are not, cannot and will never be Garmin. There is only one Garmin!!-----why? because I said so damn it! GPSS is excellent value. Problem is the rest of the box the GPSS comes with! Maybe they are throwing in GPSS as enticement? And frankly at our speeds I don't feel we need GPSS. It's nice but unnecessary!----Poo poo GPSS it's unnecessary, why? cause I don't have one. Aspen boxes SUCK! You never answered my question though. I'm not taking it to a ridiculous extreme! Please answer my question. I really want to know why you consider my upgrade as unnecessary. Maybe I'm mising something!I feel it is an UPgrade. Unlike an Aspen or even a G500 in which case I would agree with you. THEY are unnecessary! The Aspen would be a true DOWNgrade. And it's only my opinion ! ----THE ASPEN WOULD BE A TRUE DOWNGRADE....poop on you mooniac, and it's only my opinion! OK, this was seriously a lot of fun, lucky for you I have thunderstorms all around me and I was able to stay in my trailer this morning. I know , I know, it's all taken out of context and my paraphrasing was WAY OFF... Let's see your best Jay Carney SPIN move... Quote
DaV8or Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Quote: Mazerbase I stole my wife's iPad to try it out. On bright days, with sunglasses on, I can't see the screen. Am I the only one? Quote
DaV8or Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Quote: Bnicolette We have been using the iPad's consistently for the last 10 months running both Jeppesen and Foreflight and have NEVER had one problem with one of them crashing in that time. I have never lost a GPS signal even through the heated windshields with our external GPS and anytime I have looked at the iPad, the bearing track information is the very same as the FMS's. Quote
Cris Posted July 24, 2011 Author Report Posted July 24, 2011 Quote: Cris Here is a thread on beechtalk for the Ipad known overheat issue http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=55557 And there is a hardware solution from that thread that describes a $25 Ipad cooling pack available from Amazon.com. Hope this helps. I also use DTC Duats as an app & have the Foreflight Checklist App. I am now considering scanning all my STC's & manuals in a PDF format to download onto the Ipad. I can get rid of them & easily search them with Goodreader while at the same time picking up some useful load. Has anyone else scanned in manuals & possibly the POH? Maybe we could post so that they could be shared & downloaded by others? Quote
bnicolette Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Dave, Are you using an external GPS? If you are going it with the internal GPS, then you will most certainly lose signal. That is very interesting with the overheating? We use iPad 1's at work and I also have an iPad 1. I have never had a problem with overheating...............yet? I have to admit though, that my leg lenghts in the Mooney are a max of 2 hours and in the Falcon we don't keep them running all the time just for taxi, departure and arrival most times and yes it would be in an air conditioned cabin. It's weird though that I can sit in my hotel room or whereever and watch netflix or a loaded movie and have never had it shut down for any reason including overheating? Could it be possible that there is something wrong with your unit? I'm with you though in that I wouldn't want to have it as my only means of navigation. I have no problems using it as a primary means of navigation though as long as back ups are onboard. It is certainly accurate enough to do it. We always have them running in the arrival and approach phase of flight and even the geo referencing is spot on all the way to the chocks. In my airplane my 396 & apollo are my primary navigation units. I have the kns80 so I can legally file and accept direct routing although I rarely program it that way. Obviously the iPad is a VFR unit and for now that is how it should be used as far as navigation goes. As far as the charts and maps, where else can you get up to date charts electronically that are so cheap and be able to use them legally? We also have a lot of our manuals loaded on them as well (Minimum Equipment List, Internations Ops Manual, Systems diagrams, etc.), so no more digging for a book behind the seats or walking to the back of the airplane to dig up some information. There are many flight depatments using these now including NetJets, Flight Options is considering them, and countless part 135 and part 91 corporate operators. I haven't searched though to see if they are having any issues with them? It is very possible that they are but I just haven't heard of them yet. I just think it's amazing technology that is coming to us at an extraordinary price (for aviation that is). Quote
PTK Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Quote: alex Costs being equal somehow I really trust the Garmin more than the Aspen----this was after mooniac had answered your question in great detail. Did you consider the G500 in your desicion process? Also a bigger display is definitly better in my opinion. With the small Aspens I found I had to be directly in front of them. With a bigger area display this wasn't the case. --- um, they are in front of you last time I checked and perhaps all three screens may be a tad, dare I say, BIIGGER than yours. But it's not my choice! Congratulations and enjoy!! ----I wouldn't have done it! congratulations anyways! Aspen is great. I salute them for their efforts. They have done a great job in bringing to market a good product. However they are not, cannot and will never be Garmin. There is only one Garmin!!-----why? because I said so damn it! GPSS is excellent value. Problem is the rest of the box the GPSS comes with! Maybe they are throwing in GPSS as enticement? And frankly at our speeds I don't feel we need GPSS. It's nice but unnecessary!----Poo poo GPSS it's unnecessary, why? cause I don't have one. Aspen boxes SUCK! You never answered my question though. I'm not taking it to a ridiculous extreme! Please answer my question. I really want to know why you consider my upgrade as unnecessary. Maybe I'm mising something!I feel it is an UPgrade. Unlike an Aspen or even a G500 in which case I would agree with you. THEY are unnecessary! The Aspen would be a true DOWNgrade. And it's only my opinion ! ----THE ASPEN WOULD BE A TRUE DOWNGRADE....poop on you mooniac, and it's only my opinion! OK, this was seriously a lot of fun, lucky for you I have thunderstorms all around me and I was able to stay in my trailer this morning. I know , I know, it's all taken out of context and my paraphrasing was WAY OFF... Let's see your best Jay Carney SPIN move... Quote
DaV8or Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Quote: Bnicolette Dave, Are you using an external GPS? If you are going it with the internal GPS, then you will most certainly lose signal. Internal. I didn't buy it to be a GPS, so I probably won't be getting any other hardware. Just pointing out the iPads limitations as it stands. That is very interesting with the overheating? We use iPad 1's at work and I also have an iPad 1. I have never had a problem with overheating...............yet? I have to admit though, that my leg lenghts in the Mooney are a max of 2 hours and in the Falcon we don't keep them running all the time just for taxi, departure and arrival most times and yes it would be in an air conditioned cabin. It's weird though that I can sit in my hotel room or whereever and watch netflix or a loaded movie and have never had it shut down for any reason including overheating? Could it be possible that there is something wrong with your unit? I too have never had an overheating issue outside the cockpit. I think it may happen when the sun beats directly down on the display and I have it in my kneeboard. As far as the charts and maps, where else can you get up to date charts electronically that are so cheap and be able to use them legally? Don't know. This is why I got an iPad. Love this part of it. We also have a lot of our manuals loaded on them as well (Minimum Equipment List, Internations Ops Manual, Systems diagrams, etc.), so no more digging for a book behind the seats or walking to the back of the airplane to dig up some information. I'm starting to do this too. I just think it's amazing technology that is coming to us at an extraordinary price (for aviation that is). I think so too. I'm just pointing out that IMO, the software guys are treading into dangerous legal waters when they try to take the iPad IFR. Even though everybody clicks on "Agree", a good lawyer can tear that to shreds. Unfortunatly, eventually it will be tested. Quote
bnicolette Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 You're right Dave, it could very well get a bit dicey if the lawyers get involved. But until they take it away, I am looking forward to having synthetic vision in my lil baby. As far as the GPS on the iPad you're right also; it is a short coming in the air, but for $99 I have a very dependable and capable back up for the back up. However, I lived for years without any backup, it's just hard not to keep wanting more. Pretty soon, I'll be at the Betty Ford clinic getting weined off all this stuff and just go back to flying pilotage. Oh gosh to even think of such a thing............who knows where I'd end up if that happened. Quote
David Mazer Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Quote: Bnicolette We also have a lot of our manuals loaded on them as well (Minimum Equipment List, Internations Ops Manual, Systems diagrams, etc.), so no more digging for a book behind the seats or walking to the back of the airplane to dig up some information. Quote
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