Nickel Carbide Cylinders

[Tyler K.]

Is anyone using Continental or ECi nickel carbide cylinders?  If so, I'd like to talk with you about what you think of them.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Tyler K.
Incorrect phrasing.

[toto]

Not a Continental or ECi engine (I don't even know what an ECi engine is), but I installed four nickel cylinders in a Lycoming engine and had a pretty negative experience with it. 

The engine was 2500smoh and running perfectly. Finally decided to do the overhaul just because it seemed like tempting fate with 500 free hours. The shop was really pushing ECi cylinders as superior to the factory cylinders, but I was reluctant because I'd read a lot of bad news about the Classic Cast series. The shop convinced me that ECi had addressed all of their past problems with the new Titan line. 

Anyway, four new Titan cylinders in a newly-overhauled engine produced worse compression and double the oil consumption as with the Lycoming cylinders. Then about two years later a nice AD on the cylinders requiring an inspection every 50 hours. 

This was all a decade ago, and it may be that the new products from ECi are free of problems. But if I were to do it over again, I'd buy the Lycoming cylinders in a heartbeat. 

[Tyler K.]

Thanks for the response, and for pointing out my phrasing error - I've amended the post to reflect that.  I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.  Hopefully you've gotten everything squared away.

[toto]

9 minutes ago, Tyler K. said:

Thanks for the response, and for pointing out my phrasing error - I've amended the post to reflect that.  I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.  Hopefully you've gotten everything squared away.

Yeah, no big deal. The engine in the P____ is still running fine, and aside from the recurring AD has had no real problems. Oil consumption is higher but stable as is the compression. 

My basic takeaway is that the nickel cylinders are not head-and-shoulders better than the factory cylinders, and that I'd probably be less creative the next time around

[CaptRJM]

I installed nickel cylinders in my TSIO-360-LB at 800 hours. When I purchased the plane I knew that it would need a TOH as the previous owner always ran the engine at 75% at best power. I now have around 1500 hours. Lowest compression is 72 PSI when checked cold.  I change the oil every 25 hours. I put in 8 quarts and there is usually 6.5+ quarts remaining when I change the oil.  Probably, half of that is puked out. I’m very happy with the nickel cylinder performance.  When I overhaul I’d spec them again!

BTW,  all the motorcycle manufacturers use nickel cylinders for about the last 8-10 years.  Not a direct comparison but shows the confidence in the technology by an entire market.

If your plane sits a lot in humid conditions they will be of benefit as you won’t get any cylinder rusting.  I did hear thru my IA that Continental was having a hard time with getting consistency in the early runs of their nickel cylinders.  I’d have that investigated before committing to install them. 

 

[wpbarnar]

@CaptRJM,  Who’s Ni plated cylinders did you use?  I would like to use Ni cylinders when performing a TOH on my TSIO 360 SB.    I did not think CMI offered Ni cylinders for the TSIO 360.

Bill

[aaronk25]

If you take care of the motor a regular set of cylinders should last 2000-4000 hours.....these coatings can come off and/or are a pain if not impossible to break in. Just thoughts and comments from a and p friends.


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[mike_elliott]

Aaron, Nickle cylinders break in very very fast and easy. Chrome, not so much. I did lose the coating on a nickle cylinder once in my old F, but the replacement and other 3 were (and still are) fantastic well past TBO.  It was strange because the cylinders were purchased from J&J back in 2001, and the one that had infant mortality was a sn that was completely different than the other 3. These were first run overhauled per J&J., and I dont know who did the nickle plating but I think it was Eci.

[nels]

If needed, can a plated cylinder be honed or would you run a risk of going through the coating?

[N201MKTurbo]

Nickel silicon carbide coated cylinders can be honed with a diamond hone. 

[CaptRJM]

14 hours ago, wpbarnar said:

@CaptRJM,  Who’s Ni plated cylinders did you use?  I would like to use Ni cylinders when performing a TOH on my TSIO 360 SB.    I did not think CMI offered Ni cylinders for the TSIO 360.

Bill

I spoke to Continental at Sun n Fun last year. They were hoping to have their new cylinder production facility open by the end of 2017. When it opens they were going to start making new nickel cylinders for the TSIO 360 motors. I don’t know the current status.

As far as my cylinders, they were new Continental cylinders that my IA’s engine shop sent out to have them nicked.  I don’t know who actually performs the process. 

Unlike steel cylinders where you push the motor for 10 hours to break-in the cylinders with nickel you do the opposite. Run the motor at a low power and a little rich for 10 hours, check compression, change the oil and you’re done. 

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, CaptRJM said:

I spoke to Continental at Sun n Fun last year. They were hoping to have their new cylinder production facility open by the end of 2017. When it opens they were going to start making new nickel cylinders for the TSIO 360 motors. I don’t know the current status.

As far as my cylinders, they were new Continental cylinders that my IA’s engine shop sent out to have them nicked.  I don’t know who actually performs the process. 

Unlike steel cylinders where you push the motor for 10 hours to break-in the cylinders with nickel you do the opposite. Run the motor at a low power and a little rich for 10 hours, check compression, change the oil and you’re done. 

I hope it happens soon too, especially since  Ni is only available with overhauled cylinders for the TSIO-360's; which are at least rebuilt to new tolerances. But J&J in Texas is the only source I know of for Ni TSIO-360 cylinders since nether ECI or Continental make them new yet. They do a huge business but often you have to wait for these cylinders since they're not as common as many others like the IO-550's.

[CaptRJM]

ECI never made new cylinders for TSIO-360 motors.  All their products for that motor were overhauled.

I was under the impression that ECI was in deep financial trouble because of the cylinder AD.  I thought Continental bought what was left of them.