LFOD Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Quote: jelswick Am I alone in preferring the tactile feel of my 430W's buttons and knobs? My biggest hope out of this is that it brings 530 prices down so that I can afford to add one of those to the 430 in my current stack. Touch screen is a nice idea in my car, but I've been in enough turbulence that I'd rather have the click of the knob vs trying to hit the right spot on a touch screen to tune a frequency when getting bounced around. I'm even happy they couldn't flush mount my Aspens now since I can steady my hand against it's rim while hitting the right button. Afraid I might be becoming a bit antiquated if I'm not excited about this move, but I personally would prefer the 530 to what I saw them roll out and am not looking forward to everything going to touch screen. Quote
fantom Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Quote: jelswick Am I alone in preferring the tactile feel of my 430W's buttons and knobs? Quote
jelswick Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Quote: LFOD What is your set up and how do you receive weather? Quote
TLSDriver Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 I just watched the demo video on AvWeb. Even the smallest hint of turbulence made pushing the screen look like a real chore. In light, moderate or worse I think I would have a heck of a time. I agree that both the tacticle feel as well the fact that you are holding on to knob makes more sense. That being said my 430w doesnt do a great job with weather display. I was thinking of adding a 2nd Aspen but not 100% sold on that solution. The Aspen\King parternship is interesting but the software has been a nightmare. I have no idea on what the code looks like under the hood. Could be a rats nest for Aspen. So like many that have posted I feel like I don't have a great option. All seem to have a great deal of compromise built in.... And when you are spending this kind of money that is a bitter pill to swallow. Quote
jax88 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 I'm the same way with looking for things to brace my hand on in turbulance. The other day my co-pilot (wife) made me quit reaching for the panel, she said she was tired of the bumps and the only time she noticed them was when I was trying to change a radio. Now she keeps track of frequencies and transponder settings. Quote
flight2000 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 I don't know, I actually think it won't be that bad in turbulence and it's just a way to justify NOT getting the new systems. From the demo videos, the push buttons look big enough that it would have to be pretty turbulent to miss them. In that case, I'm more worried about saving my butt versus pushing buttons. Have to wait and see, not that I'm going to run out and drop more money when my 430W is doing fine. I would like better flight planning capabilities and the new GTN series certainly does that. If I had known last year what I know now, I would have looked for a GNS480 that had the victor airways for flight planning. Oh well. PS. The knobs still work like the 430/530 series on the new GTN's. Quote
Awful_Charlie Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 Quote: flight2000 I don't know, I actually think it won't be that bad in turbulence and it's just a way to justify NOT getting the new systems. Quote
Amelia Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 I have G530W, and it's fine for what it does. Its limitations are considerable, though- no airways is the biggest drawback, and few geographic features. WX displayed thereon would be lovely, but Brand G is so frightfully expensive. I fill in the blanks- airways and XM weather, higher-definition ground details, and US approach plates- with AnywhereMap, which is far cheaper for more information. I'm eagerly awaiting the next AnywhereMap electronic wizardry, which should be out quite soon-- and, I devoutly hope, still much cheaper to buy and keep current, than anything Garmin sells. Quote
Jeff_S Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 Somehow, I can't imagine that the product managers at Garmin overlooked the concept of turbulence in their product design. I can understand the general reluctance to touch screen, as I've been bounced around my fair share like everyone else. But the reviews I've read from people who've actually flown with the devices say that it is quite manageable...e.g. Mac McClelland and Paul Bertorelli. And there is a knob approach on these devices if you really need it. I do understand people's viewpoints, but I predict that once it gets into the real world and real users' experience starts getting out there, this will be less of an issue. But it will be fun to watch and wait for that... Quote
DaV8or Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 A lot of sour grapes around here. I think it's a big improvement on the 430/530 and if I were in the market for a new 430/530 right now, I would spend the extra to get it. For knob dwiddlers, they still have that interface. Now would be a good time do it because you can still get a pretty good price for your 430/530 WAAS. I think, as usual, Garmin has a winner and they will sell well in time. Fortunately, I'm OK with my 430W and 696 for now. Quote
DaV8or Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 Quote: OR75 I am sure this product launch makes $$$ sense for Garmin. The questions for me are: Will it make my fly safer ? Quote
jelswick Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 I watched the AvWeb video and not sure how well it works, but they did in fact consider turbulence as a possible factor and designed the edges in a way to give you a stable place to place your hands when hitting the displayed buttons. There was a little movement in the flight test video and the co-pilot didn't seem to have any issue hitting the correct numbers. Quote
TLSDriver Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 I noticed a lot of posters are happy about the addition(return) of being able to use Victor airways. Does this save keystrokes or increase situational awareness? I am used to just adding a series of way points in my 430 to build a flight plan. I am all for a better mousetrap... just haven't figure this one out. Quote
flight2000 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Quote: TLSDriver I noticed a lot of posters are happy about the addition(return) of being able to use Victor airways. Does this save keystrokes or increase situational awareness? I am used to just adding a series of way points in my 430 to build a flight plan. I am all for a better mousetrap... just haven't figure this one out. Quote
jetdriven Posted March 30, 2011 Report Posted March 30, 2011 actually we just put an Aera 500 in our 77 201 right above the audio panel and rearranged some things to make it fit.. it turned out well. took 35 hours of work to do it, however. The Aera display isnt as bright as our KLN-89B and in turbulence, those tiny touch screen buttons are really hard to use. So, we use the KLN-89B also. Great setup. Quote: LFOD http://www.pca.aero/detail/9457/GPS/GARMIN/AERA_510_w_XM/ It would cost about 1K more to mount in the panel with an Airgizmo, which I will gladly pay to get that clean look. Quote
M016576 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Quote: jelswick Am I alone in preferring the tactile feel of my 430W's buttons and knobs? My biggest hope out of this is that it brings 530 prices down so that I can afford to add one of those to the 430 in my current stack. Touch screen is a nice idea in my car, but I've been in enough turbulence that I'd rather have the click of the knob vs trying to hit the right spot on a touch screen to tune a frequency when getting bounced around. I'm even happy they couldn't flush mount my Aspens now since I can steady my hand against it's rim while hitting the right button. Afraid I might be becoming a bit antiquated if I'm not excited about this move, but I personally would prefer the 530 to what I saw them roll out and am not looking forward to everything going to touch screen. Quote
flight2000 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Quote: docket I need one because its cool. Quote
Vref Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 I had a good old ARNAV star 5000 in my other aircraft. The HMI (Human Machine Interface)was much better then what I have experienced in the 430 which I find very difficult and non-logical. The HMI of the touch screen AV80R I am using as back-up GPS is wonderful. I had the touch pen hanging on a wire so it was easier to hit the right synoptic...I used this in a motor-glider go figure, when hitting turbulence you sometimes are lifted out of your seat! It worked for me... I think Garmin made a very smart move to allow a combination of dialling and touch-screen. A waypoint/naviad etc.. is sometimes easier entered with touching the characters if in heavy turbulence you can revert back to dialing for frequencies etc.... Also I like that you can drag the RTE around to avoid certain airspaces or make route changes you immediately see the FPL changes.... Building a very good HMI is a very complex job..it looks indeed like Garmin made a major step forward.....is it worth the price...? I surely would like to have one.. Quote
docket Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Quote: flight2000 Docket, I thought that was the slogan/reason reserved for getting a Beech Duke... http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7798817/dukes-explained/ Quote
PTK Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Finally Garmin comes out with a TRUE IFR box. This is exactly what I've been waiting for. I didn't want the x30 because it pretends to be IFR when it is really a VFR box. Now all I need is a little discount to pull the trigger on the 750. Awsome!! Quote
DaV8or Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Quote: M016576 Am I the only one that thinks that these are a big step forward? I can't wait to see the interface in action: I've always been angry that the 430/530 interface was so complicated (knobs, nested menus, etc, etc)- it's a human factors issue that it requires so much training to operate effectively. I'm hoping that the new menu system is intuitive; if they nail that, then I'll GLADLY get rid of my 430W for the 650..... or maybe even splurge on a 750. -JoB Quote
John Pleisse Posted March 31, 2011 Report Posted March 31, 2011 Quote: DaV8or No. I think it's big step forward too. The 430 interface is cumbersome. I too await the real world results, but fear I won't be upgrading anytime soon. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Posted April 2, 2011 Aviation Consumer had an in-depth review in the new April issue and they think it's a winner. A few things they pointed out about the GTN line: Adjusted for inflation, the units are cheaper than the GNS 4/530 were at their introduction in 1998. The GTN 750 has 98% more screen real estate than the 530. The smaller GTN 650 case is the identical size as the 430W yet the screen is 53% larger. Photos in the issue show why, the 18 buttons and knobs took up a tremendous amount of space and are now eliminated. Using the touch screen during light turbulence was quite easy. For those that are worried about the 4/530 line, Garmin told the author that support for those units will be available for at least another ten years since there are so many out there. The author predicts prices dropping significantly for used 4/530's. Only an opinion. He loved the ability to rubber band his route. Speaking in terms of the 4/530, this prevents the pilot from having to go into FP mode and manually inserting and deleting waypoints. I can see this as a great feature for circumventing bad weather, just drag your finger to where you want to go with the autopilot on and it will take you there. Lastly, the author stated that the unit is so intuitive that reading the manual is not necessary. Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted April 2, 2011 Report Posted April 2, 2011 They'll be producing/selling the 430W/530W for at least a few more years. Too many fleets that need redundancy. Per Garmin Rep at Sun 'n Fun. Quote
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