Speaking of vacuum steps-

[carusoam]

Find out where @takairis and see if his STC'd linear motor would work in this case...?

Could be a simple plan... if enough interest was around.

There are some similar solutions in the experimental world...

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

On 11/16/2017 at 10:00 AM, ShuRugal said:

Converting the step to electric should be easy enough, if you can convince your AP that a 12V motor, a spool, and some cable is a minor mod.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

It would be a minor alteration according to the regs.

[Bob_Belville]

On 11/17/2017 at 3:40 PM, bonal said:

My wife nor I have any trouble boarding or de planing without the step, occasionally I will lower the "old man step" for passengers. When I was first looking at Mooney's I thought the crank was to role the window up and down, if you had the crank mechanism and switched your step to vacuum you might as well install a window that goes up and down using that crank.

I am that old man though I could get by w/o the step if I had to but Nancy is kinda old herself with one knee replaced and the other one in need of replacement. 

[takair]

6 hours ago, carusoam said:

Find out where @takairis and see if his STC'd linear motor would work in this case...?

Could be a simple plan... if enough interest was around.

There are some similar solutions in the experimental world...

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks Anthony.  I have the wind up step on my plane.  Just lubed yesterday for smoother operation.  A little triflow on the square tube makes a big difference.

I have two PMA’d actuators.  They are relatively short throw (2” and 4”) and are geared for a small load (5lb), but that might be an easy change.  Does anybody know how much travel the vacuum actuator has?  I will try to take a look at mine today to see how easy it might be to retrofit a wind up.

[kortopates]

22 hours ago, HRM said:

Well Paul, if you had been a kid back in the sixties, you'd know that when a rocket lands (tail first) on a scary planet the first thing that happens is a staircase magically emerges from the hull for the astronauts to descend to their doom on. Then there is the ultimate retractable 'step":

Hah, hah  I was a kid back then (still am for that matter) but you probably meant the 50's because that was before my time. I was more apart of the Star Trek generation - "Beam me up Scotty". My 252/Encore does almost that too far away destinations, along with its step!

22 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Visible? I discovered that the step servo had failed when a friend posted this clip..

You know, I think I even remember that video from when you first posted it about your then new avionics. I didn't see it till the second viewing though. Nice take off though.

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, kortopates said:

You know, I think I even remember that video from when you first posted it about your then new avionics. I didn't see it till the second viewing though. Nice take off though.

I used to dread that little field, 2900' x 50', not well maintained, with lots of trees all around. Landing uphill to the East, taking off to the East helps.

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, takair said:

Thanks Anthony.  I have the wind up step on my plane.  Just lubed yesterday for smoother operation.  A little triflow on the square tube makes a big difference.

I have two PMA’d actuators.  They are relatively short throw (2” and 4”) and are geared for a small load (5lb), but that might be an easy change.  Does anybody know how much travel the vacuum actuator has?  I will try to take a look at mine today to see how easy it might be to retrofit a wind up.

Somebody recently posted the parts and service Manual’s in the upload section.  So it might be in there...

From ancient memories.  The vacuum servo moved vertically about six inches... a cable was attached to the step.  A couple of pulleys were in there as well...

The vac operated one, and the previous mechanical one were probably moving the same square tube step. A funny energy storing spring is tossed in for an additional mechanical maintenance challenge...

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

As the OP its been interesting watching how far the thread drift has gone on this one :-)

How about back to our regular programming?

Does anyone ever see a vacuum step assembly come up in salvage that is worth looking at? 

[EricJ]

On 11/18/2017 at 10:49 AM, HRM said:

Well Paul, if you had been a kid back in the sixties, you'd know that when a rocket lands (tail first) on a scary planet the first thing that happens is a staircase magically emerges from the hull for the astronauts to descend to their doom on. Then there is the ultimate retractable 'step":

Gort!   Klaatu barada nikto!

[takair]

17 minutes ago, cliffy said:

As the OP its been interesting watching how far the thread drift has gone on this one :-)

How about back to our regular programming?

Does anyone ever see a vacuum step assembly come up in salvage that is worth looking at? 

Cliffy

Have you reached out to Jerry or Allen?  Both do regular salvage of old Mooney’s.  I’m curious, are you looking for the automation or are you haveing trouble with the wind-up mechanism?  To Anthony’s discussion, would an electric step be at all appealing? After looking at the mechanism a little closer, it looks doable and may be easier than the full vacuum retrofit.  If I used the same family of actuators I already use, it would be lighter than stock and PMA would be easy.  Could be set up to retract with the master switch, with an override if needed, or perhaps it could retract when the gear is up, like some of the Cessna twins.  That might be kind of cool.  If there was some limited interest, I might be tempted to prototype it on my plane.

[cliffy]

I like the idea of the electric actuator. I want to get rid of the crank handle as it hits my knee all the time. 

I would be very interested in seeing a preliminary sketch  of the design. Being an A&P and an owner I could see a possibility 

of a minor alteration with an owner designed part.

Up with the master switch would seem to be fairly easy to accomplish with a relay or 2. 

I'm going to presume the actuator has travel limit control?

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

I like the idea of the electric actuator. I want to get rid of the crank handle as it hits my knee all the time. 

I would be very interested in seeing a preliminary sketch  of the design. Being an A&P and an owner I could see a possibility 

of a minor alteration with an owner designed part.

Up with the master switch would seem to be fairly easy to accomplish with a relay or 2. 

I'm going to presume the actuator has travel limit control?

That's my only complaint about the crank handle.  It's in the worst spot.

[ShuRugal]

That's my only complaint about the crank handle.  It's in the worst spot.

Previous owner solved that problem in mine by replacing the crank with a 2" split ring. A bit of a PITA to operate, but doesn't jab the knee.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

3 hours ago, cliffy said:

I like the idea of the electric actuator. I want to get rid of the crank handle as it hits my knee all the time. 

I would be very interested in seeing a preliminary sketch  of the design. Being an A&P and an owner I could see a possibility 

of a minor alteration with an owner designed part.

Up with the master switch would seem to be fairly easy to accomplish with a relay or 2. 

I'm going to presume the actuator has travel limit control?

Firebird And corvette headlight motors use a torque sensor on the motor.... amp sensor, that gets monitored. At the end of the travel, the amps spike momentarily turning the system off.  Based on a 12v motor with a worm drive tip, and a round plastic gear, (probably ABS. Based on its age / failure issues...)

When the plastic gear teeth fall off, the timer shuts the motor down after a few seconds.

An idea that may work for this system as well...?

Best regards,

-a-

[M20F-1968]

On 11/16/2017 at 11:16 AM, Bob_Belville said:

There is a great deal to love about Mooneys from 1966 +/- a year or two: the Johnson Bar Manual Landing Gear, Manual/hydraulic Flaps, and a sexy Vacuum actuated Step that's there when you need it and tucked in all comfy when you don't.

 

On 11/16/2017 at 11:21 AM, Bob_Belville said:

When I redid my panel I removed the backup vacuum system but not the vacuum pump. This was on the advice of my avionics shop. Vacuum powers the backup AI and the step, neither of which would be critical if they failed. In fact both have failed since I've had the plane, not at the same time and not due to the vacuum pump. 

The vacuum back-up AI is a real Back-up for the two electric AI's I have (3" electric and G600).  The fact that it also powers the vacuum step are two reasons to leave the vacuum pump in the airplane.  )No need for a back-up vacuum pump).  The Johnson bar and hydraulic flaps give the overall reliability of manual equipment.  

Add in a glass panel with modern navigation systems and steam back-up and you have the best of both worlds.  

John Breda

[Bob_Belville]

4 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

 

The vacuum back-up AI is a real Back-up for the two electric AI's I have (3" electric and G600).  The fact that it also powers the vacuum step are two reasons to leave the vacuum pump in the airplane.  )No need for a back-up vacuum pump).  The Johnson bar and hydraulic flaps give the overall reliability of manual equipment.  

Add in a glass panel with modern navigation systems and steam back-up and you have the best of both worlds.  

John Breda

John, something like this?VID_20171029_131933117[1].mp4

VID_20171029_131933117[1].mp4