CiES Fuel Senders Resource Thread

[fuellevel]

Nice

[Bob_Belville]

Thanks Chris, as you know I have some CiES sensors coming as well as add on bladder cells to take my O&N to 64 gallons (nominal). Chris at Griggs tells me that the STC for the E does not include 4 sensors even for the 8 cell version.

Without the high side sensors I think my installation is going to be a good bit simpler:

• Remove and ship EDM 930 to JPI for mods, harness, and firmware updates. 30 minutes plus about 2 weeks waiting time including transit.
• Drain tanks (one at a time if storage cans are limited) by disconnect fuel line at injector servo and using the electric boost pump. 15 minutes with helper to turn pump on/off?
• Remove front seats and lower side panels to expose senders. 30 minutes? 
• Reinstall EDM. 30 minutes
• Swap out senders. Run harness to EDM 1 hour
• Jack and level plane. 30 minutes
• Calibrate senders. 1 hour

 

[N6758N]

16 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

• Swap out senders. Run harness to EDM 1 hour
• Jack and level plane. 30 minutes
• Calibrate senders. 1 hour

Hey Bob,

I would give yourself a little more time to run the harness, it needs to be routed from each tank all the way to the monitor, in order to do it neatly and keep from having a rats nest of wires tied together, I would give yourself 2-3 hours to be safe. Oh to be retired...

[xcrmckenna]

I really wish I had followed this thread from the start and it would have saved me a long afternoon being on the phone and sending quite a few emails today.

 

And the last hour or so I spent catching up on this thread I could have been working on my ground school for my IR. But it’s been a great read and helped me get my mind around things.

 

@Marauder and @N6758N I hope your war wounds have healed and are enjoying the spoils of victory with the added safety the CiES’ provide. 

 

I ordered my EDM900 a few weeks ago and received it in the mail today. I thought we ordered the sending units as well but when they were not in the box I started tracking them down. Well we ordered the wiring harness for the frequency CiES’s and not the actual units. I should have paid more attention to what I was doing and maybe understood more of what JPI was telling me and asking, when going over the order sheet. 

 

So I spent the afternoon trying to figure out if I wanted to send the edm back to jpi to be reprogrammed so I could use the original sending units or what. I’ve decided I will call CiES tomorrow ask them a few questions and continue with the plan with the frequency sending units. 

 

I should have figured out what they were asking or asking what I needed and this thread would have explained everything to me a long time ago and saved time now. 

 

With Marauders post and everyone’s comments I still have a few questions. I’ve already pestered @Bob_Belville,  @N6758N said the wire harness on the edm comes wires wrong. Could I get a picture of how it’s wired or send you a picture of mine and be able to tell me if mine is wired wrong? I will be able to explain it to my avionics tech. 

 

@Bob - S50 you posted that I would only need one set of senders for my J even though it has two floats. Does that mean I just reuse the outside senders but wire it inline with the inside senders? Or do I need to order two specific sets one with an inside sender and an outside sender

 

thanks again 

Charles 

 

 

[carusoam]

Charles,  

you are going to want the frequency type sender for the best digital accuracy... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob - S50]

10 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

 

@Bob - S50 you posted that I would only need one set of senders for my J even though it has two floats. Does that mean I just reuse the outside senders but wire it inline with the inside senders? Or do I need to order two specific sets one with an inside sender and an outside sender

 

thanks again 

Charles 

 

 

No, you need four senders for the J.  If the wiring for the original senders is in good shape you can use those, but you'll also need to run a power wire to each sender.  Once the interior paneling and was off, and we had removed enough inspection plates from the wing, it only took my partner and me about 10 minutes to run the power wire out to the sender for our mechanic.

And when you install the floats, make sure the float does not rest up against the side of a stiffener on the bottom of the wing.  If they do, they might stick until there is enough fuel to float them higher.  You may need to slightly bend the arm to keep the float clear of the stiffener.

[Marauder]

I really wish I had followed this thread from the start and it would have saved me a long afternoon being on the phone and sending quite a few emails today.
 
And the last hour or so I spent catching up on this thread I could have been working on my ground school for my IR. But it’s been a great read and helped me get my mind around things.
 
[mention=9886]Marauder[/mention] and [mention=11714]N6758N[/mention] I hope your war wounds have healed and are enjoying the spoils of victory with the added safety the CiES’ provide. 
 
I ordered my EDM900 a few weeks ago and received it in the mail today. I thought we ordered the sending units as well but when they were not in the box I started tracking them down. Well we ordered the wiring harness for the frequency CiES’s and not the actual units. I should have paid more attention to what I was doing and maybe understood more of what JPI was telling me and asking, when going over the order sheet. 
 
So I spent the afternoon trying to figure out if I wanted to send the edm back to jpi to be reprogrammed so I could use the original sending units or what. I’ve decided I will call CiES tomorrow ask them a few questions and continue with the plan with the frequency sending units. 
 
I should have figured out what they were asking or asking what I needed and this thread would have explained everything to me a long time ago and saved time now. 
 
With Marauders post and everyone’s comments I still have a few questions. I’ve already pestered [mention=8913]Bob_Belville[/mention],  [mention=11714]N6758N[/mention] said the wire harness on the edm comes wires wrong. Could I get a picture of how it’s wired or send you a picture of mine and be able to tell me if mine is wired wrong? I will be able to explain it to my avionics tech. 
 

If you did not order the JPI 900 configured for the CiES frequency mode and want to run in that mode, you’ll need to send it back for the firmware revision that will support it. They will also provide you a cable with the proper end to plug into the JPI. It is buried under the options page on the Aircraft Spruce site:



As for the connectors. I don’t recall what number they were P5 / P6? What the issue was that one is for primary fuel tanks and the other connector was for aux fuel tanks. Both Terry and my JPIs were labeled incorrectly. The wiring was correct, the labels were wrong. When we went to calibrate mine, there was no calibration numbers for the primary fuel tanks. Terry called JPI and they indicated it may have been labeled incorrectly. They were.


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[xcrmckenna]

If you did not order the JPI 900 configured for the CiES frequency mode and want to run in that mode, you’ll need to send it back for the firmware revision that will support it. They will also provide you a cable with the proper end to plug into the JPI. It is buried under the options page on the Aircraft Spruce site:



As for the connectors. I don’t recall what number they were P5 / P6? What the issue was that one is for primary fuel tanks and the other connector was for aux fuel tanks. Both Terry and my JPIs were labeled incorrectly. The wiring was correct, the labels were wrong. When we went to calibrate mine, there was no calibration numbers for the primary fuel tanks. Terry called JPI and they indicated it may have been labeled incorrectly. They were.


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My edm is configured for the frequency CiES senders. I was just contemplating sending it back to have it configured for the original unit.

And now that I know my plane takes two sending units and not just two “a conversation with jpi when I ordered the unit I was told I just had two” I ordered the wrong wire harness and will have to reorder the wire harness for two units per side.

I will check the labeling on the P6 side. And do I just compare it to the schematic they sent to be able to tell if it’s labeled wrong?


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[N6758N]

3 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

My edm is configured for the frequency CiES senders. I was just contemplating sending it back to have it configured for the original unit.

And now that I know my plane takes two sending units and not just two “a conversation with jpi when I ordered the unit I was told I just had two” I ordered the wrong wire harness and will have to reorder the wire harness for two units per side.

I will check the labeling on the P6 side. And do I just compare it to the schematic they sent to be able to tell if it’s labeled wrong?


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The best way to see if it is wired correctly is to plug it all in, if it works and the numbers make sense, then you are good. If not then swap P6 and plug it into the aux port.

Edited January 31, 2018 by N6758N

[Bob_Belville]

36 minutes ago, N6758N said:

The best way to see if it is wired correctly is to plug it all in, if it works and the numbers make sense, then you are good. If not then swap P6 and plug it into the aux port.

Ditto. It wasn't really mislabeled but it was ambiguous and required re-reading the instructions/diagrams.

[Marauder]

The best way to see if it is wired correctly is to plug it all in, if it works and the numbers make sense, then you are good. If not then swap P6 and plug it into the aux port.

You’ll know immediately. There won’t be any calibration numbers showing for the primary tanks. If the connectors weren’t buried in the panel, I’d snap a picture for you.


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[xcrmckenna]

You’ll know immediately. There won’t be any calibration numbers showing for the primary tanks. If the connectors weren’t buried in the panel, I’d snap a picture for you.


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Could I take a picture of mine, and would you be able to tell?


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[Marauder]

15 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

Could I take a picture of mine, and would you be able to tell?


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You could. But as suggested above, once you plug it in, it would be really obvious that it was or wasn't wired correctly. Nothing bad is going to happen with you plugging it into the wrong connector. You just won't see the calibration values.

[Marauder]

And if that happens, just move it to the other connector.

[N6758N]

31 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

Could I take a picture of mine, and would you be able to tell?


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One plug should be J6 and one should be J6 AUX, its one of those two.

[xcrmckenna]

And another dumb question. You guys ran another ground wire back to the head unit. Where exactly did you mean? Sharing the ground it has, or to the mounting plate that holds it in the panel? Sorry.


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[Marauder]

And another dumb question. You guys ran another ground wire back to the head unit. Where exactly did you mean? Sharing the ground it has, or to the mounting plate that holds it in the panel? Sorry.


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Now you’ve done it! I can barely remember what I had for lunch!

I’ll look back at the thread but I recall that we ran a ground from each sender’s base (Terry’s comments about removing the anodized finish on the CiES base plate) to a ground location near the sender. I believe this is a safety ground, not an electrical ground. We also ran the ground wire from each sender to the JPI’s ground circuit. In other words, the ground from the wiring harness were joined together near the inboard senders from the outboard senders and then back to the JPI’s connector that is designated as the ground.


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[xcrmckenna]

Now you’ve done it! I can barely remember what I had for lunch!

I’ll look back at the thread but I recall that we ran a ground from each sender’s base (Terry’s comments about removing the anodized finish on the CiES base plate) to a ground location near the sender. I believe this is a safety ground, not an electrical ground. We also ran the ground wire from each sender to the JPI’s ground circuit. In other words, the ground from the wiring harness were joined together near the inboard senders from the outboard senders and then back to the JPI’s connector that is designated as the ground.


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Awesome, that’s what I was picturing in my head but most of the things I have in my head are wrong in sooo many ways. I also found out I’m a hop an a skip away from CiES so I will go pick up my senders and be able to bend their ear as well. Thank you.


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[Marauder]

And another dumb question. You guys ran another ground wire back to the head unit. Where exactly did you mean? Sharing the ground it has, or to the mounting plate that holds it in the panel? Sorry.


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Post #74 shows the JPI wiring diagram. We ran the ground back to the connector at the JPI. This is the black wire from each sender that was joined inside the plane and then ran back up to the JPI.

The other grounds are from one of the screws on each sender to the chassis near the sender. Hope this helps.


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[Marauder]

Also read #104.


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[xcrmckenna]

Lol, if you wanted to enjoy that new interior of yours with a nice long flight and some mountain flying you could come hang out while we install them and tell us how to do it... I’ll buy all the beer.


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[Geoff]

What prompted you guys to change the senders in the first place?

Some kind of error from the JPI?

I am getting an intermittent  "fuel level" error on both tanks.

 

 

[Marauder]

What prompted you guys to change the senders in the first place?
Some kind of error from the JPI?
I am getting an intermittent  "fuel level" error on both tanks.
 
 

Yep. Take a look at the error before the CiES.




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[Geoff]

Hmm.  That is a different error than I am getting. 

 

I get a "Fuel Level" error which requires me to press a button to "clear" it after which is seems to mess up the accuracy of the individual tank readings but the total remaining is still accurate. 

My error seems to occur only in flight and at some pitch attitude other than level, I.e either climbing or descending. 

[jlunseth]

Wow is all I can say.  I just read through this thread.  I want to commend our pioneers for sticking with this and working through it.  I developed a work around several years ago.  I did a series of flights, refilling the tank myself to the same point in the same way so I was confident of the accuracy of the fill.  I added the USD (fuel used) numbers from my JPI.  When I got done I found that my fuel flow meter was within .1 gal out of 50 gals., which is pretty good accuracy.  So I keep one piece of paper in the cockpit, I write the starting full fuel for each tank and then subtract the USD number as I switch tanks.  It has worked well for me.  It would be nice to have good gauges as a back-up.  Plane is in for annual this year.  I might wait a year to let the dust settle and then get the new senders.  I am tired of rebuilding the old ones and having them start to stick again in a year or two.