ADSB Validation flight

[BradB]

I finished up all the requirements for my ADSB rebate today.   I was planning on doing the validation flight tomorrow morning, but decided to request a report on my last flight just to see if it would work.  I passed!  I guess the big circles out of Orlando counted for 30 minutes of maneuvering.  I'm just glad that I didn't get sent to Modena first. 

 

[Bryan]

Nice.  I just did my validation flight, too, recently, but I am waiting for my registration to process thru the FAA so me as the new owner so that I get the check vs. the seller whom I just bought the plane from does.

One thing that I did not know about ADS-B was that my VFR (no filed) flights show up in FlightAware.

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, BradB said:

I guess the big circles out of Orlando counted for 30 minutes of maneuvering.

Very good. So I assume you did skip the two specific 360's they list as required maneuvers? I wondered if they were really going to deny a pass for something like that.

[BradB]

2 hours ago, Bryan said:

 

One thing that I did not know about ADS-B was that my VFR (no filed) flights show up in FlightAware.

Uh oh.  About the only time I fly VFR is to sneak out for maintenance at another field.   My friend owns the FBO where I am based.  I try to sneak out to the nearby MSC without getting caught.     Oh well.  He always finds out anyway.  

[BradB]

43 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Very good. So I assume you did skip the two specific 360's they list as required maneuvers? I wondered if they were really going to deny a pass for something like that.

I only did what was shown.  I did a right 270 coming out of Orlando and a left 270 coming into Page field as part of the normal course of the flight.  None of them were at a 30 degree bank.   I completely skipped the crossing a point N-S and E-W.    The total flight was just under an hour. 

 

Brad.  

[xcrmckenna]

On 4/21/2017 at 4:36 PM, kortopates said:

Very good. So I assume you did skip the two specific 360's they list as required maneuvers? I wondered if they were really going to deny a pass for something like that.

Im installing my adsb equipment next week. I've filed for a rebate reservation.  But I don't see in the email or all of the links that it tells me what the specific maneuvers are. All I read is "fly in rule airspace for at least 30 minutes, with at least 10 aggregate minutes of maneuvering."

But the videos I've watched on YouTube people say they have to fly for an hour with two 360 turned to the left, two 360 turned to the right, a climb for a minute at 500'/minute and a decent of the same time and rate.

Where are these other rules listed for these specific maneuvers? It seems like this listed flight shows the 30 minute flight with any type of maneuvers for 10 minutes works. But I don't want to spend the fuel to fail at my performance report. 

[kortopates]

Im installing my adsb equipment next week. I've filed for a rebate reservation.  But I don't see in the email or all of the links that it tells me what the specific maneuvers are. All I read is "fly in rule airspace for at least 30 minutes, with at least 10 aggregate minutes of maneuvering."
But the videos I've watched on YouTube people say they have to fly for an hour with two 360 turned to the left, two 360 turned to the right, a climb for a minute at 500'/minute and a decent of the same time and rate.
Where are these other rules listed for these specific maneuvers? It seems like this listed flight shows the 30 minute flight with any type of maneuvers for 10 minutes works. But I don't want to spend the fuel to fail at my performance report. 

There is a link to a document on the Ads-b website. See the step for post installation and you should see a link to a circular or other document that details the test flight requirements.


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[xcrmckenna]

There is a link to a document on the Ads-b website. See the step for post installation and you should see a link to a circular or other document that details the test flight requirements.


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I did see the circular that sends me to the AC 20-165b that underlines flight test profiles for adsb, but it was set up in 2015 before the rebate programs was implemented. In the first part of it in 4.3.2 it says "The profile need not be flown exactly" but the instructions I got from adsb rebate program office says this.

So I'm just wondering if the AC20-165b was the way they test flew it in the "adsb testing" and now they have relaxed the requirements for the rebate for the airplane equipment? Specially since the OP's flight passed and it didn't check much of the assumed flight requirements in the AC20-165b.


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[kortopates]

I did see the circular that sends me to the AC 20-165b that underlines flight test profiles for adsb, but it was set up in 2015 before the rebate programs was implemented. In the first part of it in 4.3.2 it says "The profile need not be flown exactly" but the instructions I got from adsb rebate program office says this.

So I'm just wondering if the AC20-165b was the way they test flew it in the "adsb testing" and now they have relaxed the requirements for the rebate for the airplane equipment? Specially since the OP's flight passed and it didn't check much of the assumed flight requirements in the AC20-165b.


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Not sure, that may be all you need (30 minutes in rule airspace) but be sure to follow the link in item 2 for "program rules" as they say before you fly it in case that points to the circular or similar.


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[xcrmckenna]

They list the AC20-165b as recommended maneuvers but not required. I guess it is better to be safe than sorry. But I take it from the OP we really don't need an hour of flight in Rule airspace.


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[orionflt]

 

did my flight check a couple of weeks ago, submitted for the report when I got home and it was ready. had my approval the next morning

 

[Andy95W]

Same here.  I tooled around inside the DTW Mode C veil for a while and got my check.  No rhyme or reason to what I did other than to make sure I stayed above about 1500 AGL the whole time.  The most structured thing I did was go to the bank.  Cha-Ching!

[xcrmckenna]

Same here.  I tooled around inside the DTW Mode C veil for a while and got my check.  No rhyme or reason to what I did other than to make sure I stayed above about 1500 AGL the whole time.  The most structured thing I did was go to the bank.  Cha-Ching!

I wish I wasn't in the middle of no where, I'll have to burn fuel to get up to 10,000 msl


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[MyNameIsNobody]

For me VFR only shows up with flight following on flight aware. I have to log in to see flights. 

[tigers2007]

If you log into flight aware there is some option you can change for your airplane to make it show all the time.

[jaylw314]

If I understood reading the AC correctly, the expectation is that you perform the listed maneuvers to demonstrate your equipment performs adequately in various phases of flight.  As an AC, they are guidelines for your test flight and not required by regulations.  They do make a lot of sense, though.

The rebate rules are a little unclear (and certainly not regulatory).  It just says 30 minutes in rule airspace, with 10 aggregate minutes of maneuvering flight.  It doesn't say which maneuvers from the AC, and there's no way you could do ALL of them in 10 minutes.

The performance report probably just verifies your data is good for 30 minutes straight.  I can't imagine that it could try to verify that you did ANY maneuvers in that 30 minutes.

Short story--if you just fly around in rule airspace for 30 minutes with a good install, that will probably get your rebate approved no matter how you maneuver.  It's probably a good idea to futz around a little to make sure you actually have a good install.

[kortopates]

If I understood reading the AC correctly, the expectation is that you perform the listed maneuvers to demonstrate your equipment performs adequately in various phases of flight.  As an AC, they are guidelines for your test flight and not required by regulations.  They do make a lot of sense, though.
The rebate rules are a little unclear (and certainly not regulatory).  It just says 30 minutes in rule airspace, with 10 aggregate minutes of maneuvering flight.  It doesn't say which maneuvers from the AC, and there's no way you could do ALL of them in 10 minutes.
The performance report probably just verifies your data is good for 30 minutes straight.  I can't imagine that it could try to verify that you did ANY maneuvers in that 30 minutes.
Short story--if you just fly around in rule airspace for 30 minutes with a good install, that will probably get your rebate approved no matter how you maneuver.  It's probably a good idea to futz around a little to make sure you actually have a good install.

All true and good input. But ground time is also very important if you are taking off under a class C veil. Most flunks are actually because they detected Ads-b out air mode data rather than ground mode data while on the ground. It's caused a lot of grief for a lot of owners.


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[jetdriven]

Stopping on the runway for about 30 seconds before taxiing away will help not to fail the air/ground switching part. 

[tigers2007]

I noticed on flightaware that even if I fly to a nearby field for fuel, it shows the entire trip as one flight - even if I was on the ground for half and hour. It did this the other day when I flew to an airport 154NM away. I was on the ground for at least 45min.

[jonhop]

I too was failing the air on ground validation component. To pass my validation test, I had to keep the transponder off until the run-up area, super slow taxi on and off of the runway. I shut the transponder off shortly after pulling off of the active as the plane was crawling. The validation flight was successful...

[jonhop]

1 hour ago, tigers2007 said:

I noticed on flightaware that even if I fly to a nearby field for fuel, it shows the entire trip as one flight - even if I was on the ground for half and hour. It did this the other day when I flew to an airport 154NM away. I was on the ground for at least 45min.

I've only had one of my past several flights show up on flightaware since my ADS-B installation. That flight was from San Diego to Santa Barbara with a 30 minute stopover in French Valley. Flightaware showed the whole flight as one. 

[N201MKTurbo]

I submitted a flight to Tucson yesterday as my validation flight. The report came back with a big red stripe that said I failed! It said that I didn't spend enough time in rule airspace. It only showed 16 min in rule airspace. I figured that this weekend I would go out and tool around in the 30 mile vale for a while and get it done.

But then I got this E-Mail from the FAA out of the blue:

 

 

 

 

We have cleared your reservation so you can proceed to the rebate claim. Please go to the Rebate Claim page (https://adsbrebate.faa.gov/RebateClaim.aspx) to complete your rebate request. You will need the Rebate Reservation Number XX-XXX-XXX provided in your Rebate Reservation confirmation email, but will not need an incentive code.

 

 

ADS-B Rebate Program Office,

Federal Aviation Administration

http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/

Have questions? Get answers from our ADS-B Rebate Frequently Asked Questions: http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/faq/

Read the Program Rules: http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/media/ADS-B_Rebate_Program_Rules.pdf

 

 

So I guess there are people from the FAA who are here to help me!

 

I went to the rebate page and it sailed right through!

[larryb]

I passed my test flight on a normal trip. About 1.5 hours and only maneuvering was ATC vectors lining me up for the approach. Otherwise it was point to point.

[tigers2007]

Climb to at least 10,000 on your next cross country and it'll validate you. The bummer of the deal is that they sent my check to my PO Box far far away so I had to burn $250 or so in fuel to get it - but it gave me a reason to fly


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[jaylw314]

The FAA seems intent on getting this taken care of.  After I submitted my report, I did not get a confirmation e-mail.  When I e-mailed rebate support, they replied within a couple hours saying the report was, in fact, received and they would process it.  I got my check RIDICULOUSLY quickly, about 4 days after submitting it.

It would be a strange world if all government activity worked this quickly!