Avidyne IFD440/540 Trade-Up Program from Avionics Source (Sponsored)

[Randyott]

18 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

It will talk to the 74 , and It will work , BUT IF it is not referenced in the STC , it is not legal....  Some might say that they will have it before the 1/1/2020 mandate , BUT , if the approval has to come from King , it will NEVER happen , If it has to come from the Avidyne side who knows......Talk to the installer to be sure ,  The STC to install it for adsb out is not even from King , It is from an FBO called Perrigrine..... 

I have not found that to be the case.....  my kt74 will not show position data from the ifd440.

This is an experimental installation so the STC does not apply.  But I cannot seem to get the two to talk!

Any insights or expertise out there?  It sure would be appreciated !

tnx

[PTK]

On 12/19/2016 at 5:18 PM, Avionics Source said:

I can say it's on Avidyne's road map to add the KT-74, I'm afraid it just won't be any time soon. The real unfortunate part is that the Trig TT31 is an approved transponder with the IFD440...and the KT74 is a rebranded TT31. It's extremely unfortunate. 

Because of this, we offer a special upgrade price to the approved AXP340 transponder with the KT-74 in on trade. PM me if you want more details. 

Seems to me that before a manufacturer i.e. Avidyne, due to a lack of cajones of their own, jumps on another's bandwagon i.e. Garmin's, and touts their product as a "direct replacement" they need to do their homework real carefully first. 

Otherwise any perceived value evaporates quickly. 

Caveat emptor.

[gsengle]

Remember that for Avidyne this is a moving target, Garmin can update their software and/or reveal previously non exposed interfaces. So that's a little unfair to Avidyne. By all accounts they are doing well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

MS has direct contacts for Avidyne and Garmin...

We haven't had a direct contact for BK in a while...

The contacts have been very helpful at getting answers to these type of questions and dispelling rumors that tend to evolve quickly.

Best regards,

-a-

[Oldguy]

In doing a bit more research, I came across this:

 

It looks like 4 pins are different between the KT 74 and the TT31 - Serial Alt In and Out (2), TIS Traffic Out and GPS Position In.

Might make a slight difference. 

The above tables thanks to our brethren in BeechTalk.

[thinwing]

On 1/16/2017 at 1:35 AM, Randyott said:

Wait a minute, the ifd is advertised as a plug and play replacement for the garmin 430w ... and the 430w is and approved position source for the kt74..... and your telling me that the ifd I just purchased is not going to alk to my kt-74 ????

You will be back to mode s and kt-74 will announce Adsb position data unavailable

[thinwing]

14 hours ago, Randyott said:

I have not found that to be the case.....  my kt74 will not show position data from the ifd440.

This is an experimental installation so the STC does not apply.  But I cannot seem to get the two to talk!

Any insights or expertise out there?  It sure would be appreciated !

tnx

Avadynes 10.2 update contains Garmin Adsb+ protocol...it should work than assuming your kt-74 is software 3.12...I am running into same issue

[thinwing]

7 hours ago, Oldguy said:

In doing a bit more research, I came across this:

 

It looks like 4 pins are different between the KT 74 and the TT31 - Serial Alt In and Out (2), TIS Traffic Out and GPS Position In.

Might make a slight difference. 

The above tables thanks to our brethren in BeechTalk.

No it's the all important pin 7...i.e. Rs232 gps position in...note pin 7 is located on primary connector...all us b/k 76a/c guys have trays with only primary connector.The reason the kt-74 was such a smart choice was it used this primary connector pin 7  for ads b function.Thus it would slide in and function...true plug and play...the Avadyne 340 and trig tt31 unfortunately chose to use pin 3 on the secondary connector....which means...tearout old tray which is riveted in mooneys  and is a bear to remove and add new tray...all to input 1 22 gauge wire.I estimate 10 to 20 hrs shop time for this...ps I could just cry at the engineering stupidity!

Edited January 17, 2017 by thinwing

[Randyott]

40 minutes ago, thinwing said:

Avadynes 10.2 update contains Garmin Adsb+ protocol...it should work than assuming your kt-74 is software 3.12...I am running into same issue

I got it to work today!  I moved the data coming from the ifd440 from pin 3 of the secondary connector to pin 7 of the the primary connector and position data appeared on the Kt-74!  For reference I set the ifd440 to send "ADSB(avi)" format and set the kt74 to receive the "Trig" protocol.

still not sure if I am getting all the data required for adsb compliance?

 

[thinwing]

.....interesting....trig protocol on kt-74...what is your software version on your kt-74?the kt-74 will display position to the right of p-alt...do you have a install manual?Also looks like you need to wire your air switch to kt-74 go to ground for air grid mode..

Edited January 17, 2017 by thinwing

[carusoam]

MS is unusually strong today!

Gathering and sharing usable deep technical details. 

Best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

50 minutes ago, Randyott said:

I got it to work today!  I moved the data coming from the ifd440 from pin 3 of the secondary connector to pin 7 of the the primary connector and position data appeared on the Kt-74!  For reference I set the ifd440 to send "ADSB(avi)" format and set the kt74 to receive the "Trig" protocol.

still not sure if I am getting all the data required for adsb compliance?

 

Try setting manual nacv per trig or avadynes...than take a flight..you will get the FAA failure warning..k

[Randyott]

6 hours ago, thinwing said:

.....interesting....trig protocol on kt-74...what is your software version on your kt-74?the kt-74 will display position to the right of p-alt...do you have a install manual?Also looks like you need to wire your air switch to kt-74 go to ground for air grid mode..

That picture was from last week , befor I had it all wired up properly.  It now reports GND properly.  No I do not have King install manual for the Kt74 ... they don't give it to mere mortals.  Can you expand on the inflight error that you expect?  The position is showing up on the Kt74 when I use the function button to display it.  If it's still not going to work I might as well just trade it in for the avidyne transponder!

[Alan Fox]

You are no longer a mere mortal...... Also , its not whether it will work or not , it is whether it is legal ,  and its not ....

KT74_IM.pdf

[Yetti]

Maybe.  Not saying that you could get this past an inspector because their knowledge is probably below this level.   FAR 91.227 the way I read it certifies the transmitter to be within spec and be able to broadcast the information properly.  AC 90-114 says the same.  If the position source can supply the appropriate information weather it be a $15.00 USB GPS talking to the Glasnons system or a $15,000 GPS chip doing the same thing  I am not seeing the difference since the transmitter is still sending the correct information and it will pass the ADSB Flight test.   At worst it would seems like a field approval would suffice with appropriate ground testing showing good information if flowing. Note section of the KT74 manual section  1.28 and 1.29

 

Since this is a Trig unit and it meets transmit performance standards seems like the law is complied with.

 

 

[Yetti]

The KT74 seems to be installed in the Mooney under TSO not STC  So it would seem that TSO rules are in effect. I still have not figured out if you need a field approval to install the TSO radios in the plane.   The radios usually go on the installed equipment list.  The Protocol used to transmit the data is the same as the

Serial 9600 baud with a standard message sentence.

Since the radios are not on theMoony Type Certificate.   You would not need a Supplemental Type Certificate  to install them.  Maybe a field approval to take them on and off the installed equipment list.

 

My head hurts can anyone explain this governent regulation better.

[thinwing]

What will happen is this...the unit broadcasts alitude but doesn't contain proper sentences verifying gps integrity..i.e. Nac v..nac p and so on.This was worked out by peregrines Stc using Garmin 530w/430w software 5.20 (as I remember)outputting Garmin Adsb + and software 3.12 on the kt-74 to receive properly and broadcast to atc.I did this last year and was compliant with a good act report back.Than I pulled out the Garmin and placed the avadynes...result..no Adsb function because I think avadynes adsb(avi) is wrong protocol.Avadynes 10.2 software is supposed to provide Adsb+ for use with a Garmin 345 which will have approval.When 10.2 finally arrives ,I believe and hope the kt-74 will again function.

[Randyott]

Thank you Allen ! !

 

  Man this all really sucks....  maybe I should just do the trade up program to the avidyne transponder and be done with it all !

Now I get it talk and find out it is still not communicating all the required fields for full compliance..... 

And then if I wait for 10.2 it May work ... but someone might try to tell me it is still not legal because it is not on Kings list of approved GPS sources.

It Sounds like its time to throw in the towel, get the avidyne transponder and get my $500 rebate  

Randy

[thinwing]

Regarding who does the Stc or approval for avadyne/kt-74...it could be peregrine again as they did for Garmin 430w530w in partnership with b/k in order to sell more kt-74 s not requiring a tray change (smart move I think).Avadyne could do it to sell more ifd series even though that impacts axp 340 sales in favor of kt-74 .Also after reading the pinouts on the trig tt31 they also put a gps in port on primary connector pin 7  That is currently the easiest way to go if you have original Bendix king tray like most of us.Personally,since trig manufactures all three transponders..I was hoping Avadyne could reconfigure their transponders so new trays would not be necessary!I been a real pest on this but I think it is valid feedback on their transponder (avadyne)

[thinwing]

19 hours ago, Randyott said:

Thank you Allen ! !

 

  Man this all really sucks....  maybe I should just do the trade up program to the avidyne transponder and be done with it all !

Now I get it talk and find out it is still not communicating all the required fields for full compliance..... 

And then if I wait for 10.2 it May work ... but someone might try to tell me it is still not legal because it is not on Kings list of approved GPS sources.

It Sounds like its time to throw in the towel, get the avidyne transponder and get my $500 rebate  

Randy

If you already have the two connector block tray installed...I would talk to Chase about trading your Kt74 for the avadyne..

[Alan Fox]

1 hour ago, thinwing said:

Regarding who does the Stc or approval for avadyne/kt-74...it could be peregrine again as they did for Garmin 430w530w in partnership with b/k in order to sell more kt-74 s not requiring a tray change (smart move I think).Avadyne could do it to sell more ifd series even though that impacts axp 340 sales in favor of kt-74 .Also after reading the pinouts on the trig tt31 they also put a gps in port on primary connector pin 7  That is currently the easiest way to go if you have original Bendix king tray like most of us.Personally,since trig manufactures all three transponders..I was hoping Avadyne could reconfigure their transponders so new trays would not be necessary!I been a real pest on this but I think it is valid feedback on their transponder (avadyne)

I think you need to replace the tray , for adsb ...

[thinwing]

Only for avadyne unit...old tray will work with trig tt22...trig tt31 ..or trig built Bendix king kt-74 because these three will accept pin 7 rs232 gps data from either navigator per install manuals

Edited January 20, 2017 by thinwing

[Randyott]

I just ordered the avidyne transponder!

[gsxrpilot]

5 hours ago, Randyott said:

I just ordered the avidyne transponder!

Which one? I got the AXP322 Remote since I have the IFD540 which will drive it. More weight in the tail, less on the nose, more room in the panel.

[thinwing]

Axp-340 I'm guessing