ChristianGodin Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 I am a bit concern about usefull load. Some says that if I want more usefull load buy a Cirrus of a Bonanza. Here are my calculation Ovation vs Cirrus Cirrus SR22, Year 2005 with TKS, no air Usefull load year 2005: + 1060 lb Ramp weight: + 12 lb Fuel 81 gallons: - 486 lb Pilot and passenger - 325 lb TKS: - 50 lb Remaining: 206 lb Ovation 2, Year with TKS fiki, no air Usefull load: 974 lb Ramp weight: + 12 lb Fuel 81 gallons: - 486 lb (to compare with Cirrus) Pilot and passenger - 325 lb TKS: - 50 lb Difference in speed: 25 lb (approx. 10 kts faster) Remaining: 145 lb Difference: 61 lb Am I missing something? Quote
Jerry 5TJ Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 Empty weight of FIKI Ovation includes 6 gallons of de-ice fluid at 9 pounds per gallon. You can subtract weight of fluid not carried. Quote
Danb Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 Plus the Cirrus isn't doing : Ovation:180 Bravo: 195 Acclaim: 205 My friends Cirrus flys lop : 160 other Cirrus 170 Ie I'd rather give up some useful load for 20-40 increase in speed. Want to go slow with lots room C 182: 140 knots. . Quote
Jeff_S Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 Yes, no one would claim that a nicely equipped long body (Bravo/Ovation/Acclaim) are going to be magnificent load haulers. That's not how they're designed. The trade-off is speed and efficiency. So you have to ask yourself what your primary flight profile goals are. But you already own a Mooney, so have your flight profiles changed? 1 Quote
Danb Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 36 minutes ago, Jeff_S said: Yes, no one would claim that a nicely equipped long body (Bravo/Ovation/Acclaim) are going to be magnificent load haulers. That's not how they're designed. The trade-off is speed and efficiency. So you have to ask yourself what your primary flight profile goals are. But you already own a Mooney, so have your flight profiles changed? Nope, been flying Mooneys since 1985 just me and the misses, the back seat is full of stuff for the trip, no need for more seats. Quote
Jeff_S Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 Hi Dan. Sorry, my question was aimed at Christian! 1 Quote
Cruiser Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 I am missing something, what are you concerned about? Quote
carusoam Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 It's all about choices... 1000+ UL in my O1... Long distance runs with two people, non-stop... medium distance runs with four aboard. Nobody in my family wants to fly or drive more than two hours without a break. Unless they are sleeping.... My most common flight is/was/will be 200nm. Airplanes get more specialized as they trend towards more complex missions. FIKI and weekend flying with the family... That would be a treasured combination! Speed and efficiency are the best. Best regards, -a- Quote
Danb Posted August 8, 2016 Report Posted August 8, 2016 38 minutes ago, carusoam said: It's all about choices... 1000+ UL in my O1... Long distance runs with two people, non-stop... medium distance runs with four aboard. Nobody in my family wants to fly or drive more than two hours without a break. Unless they are sleeping.... My most common flight is/was/will be 200nm. Airplanes get more specialized as they trend towards more complex missions. FIKI and weekend flying with the family... That would be a treasured combination! Speed and efficiency are the best. Best regards, -a- I'm in your camp anthony, pick the engine (lycoming for me) strap on a long body and go!! 1 Quote
ChristianGodin Posted August 8, 2016 Author Report Posted August 8, 2016 Hi jeff, I used to have a 201, no tks. With 64 gallons of fuel, I had plenty of usefull load for luggage. With a future Ovation with TKS, I am looking at 150 lb of luggage (life raft, 2 bikes, camping stuff, etc) me and a passenger plus fuel and ... speed. 1 Quote
kmyfm20s Posted August 9, 2016 Report Posted August 9, 2016 The difference is you will need all 81 gallons of fuel in the Cirrus and not in the Ovation. I used to fly a C182 because it had a high useful load. I quickly learned once I got my Previous J that it was my true load hauler. I didn't need nearly as much fuel and could do the trips non stop compare Usually needing a fuel stop. My block times where significantly reduced. 2 Quote
GeorgePerry Posted August 11, 2016 Report Posted August 11, 2016 Find a screaming eagle M20S. Mine has a useful load of 1130 lb and it's as fast as an ovation. 1 Quote
ChristianGodin Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Posted August 11, 2016 Whow, 1130 lb. Wonder if some with TKS come on the market sometime... Quote
carusoam Posted August 11, 2016 Report Posted August 11, 2016 The original objective of the Eagle was to be de-contented (less stuff) for economic reasons. One of the gorgeous side effects is the light weight it has. 10 years later, some Eagles have been updated with key things like power and nav equipment upgrades. Adding the 'ultimate three' FIKI, AC, and/or O2 to the Eagle would be somewhat extra expensive... Purely, my opinion, may not be shared by all. My O1 didn't get the ultimate three either.... Go O! Or Eagle, -a- Quote
Cruiser Posted August 11, 2016 Report Posted August 11, 2016 Mooney only made 65 of them. Mostly in 1999 and 2000. A couple of them are gone. They are very hard to find, with leather interior and the O3 engine upgrade they are the same as an Ovation and in some ways better....... 1 Quote
M016576 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Posted August 12, 2016 On August 10, 2016 at 5:19 PM, GeorgePerry said: Find a screaming eagle M20S. Mine has a useful load of 1130 lb and it's as fast as an ovation. Or a missile... Or a rocket... Of course, those are mid body's- but hard to beat the bang for the buck.... And useful load... And speed... 1 Quote
gsengle Posted August 12, 2016 Report Posted August 12, 2016 I thinks you're comparing apples and oranges. I fly my O1 at 175kts and maybe 13gph, lop. How fast does a SR22 go on 13gph?? Or how much more gph to get close to 175? I have fiki and 960 useful. Over 1000 when fiki tanks empty. So I can carry four people and 60 gal give or take. Say 15 gal reserve, I'm still 3 hours at 175 or over 500nm. Remember fuel efficiency is effectively useful load gain (fuel you don't need to carry) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote
StevenL757 Posted August 22, 2016 Report Posted August 22, 2016 On 8/8/2016 at 4:03 AM, Jerry 5TJ said: Empty weight of FIKI Ovation includes 6 gallons of de-ice fluid at 9 pounds per gallon. You can subtract weight of fluid not carried. (just got around to reading this) Jerry - not correct I'm afraid. For empty weight calculations, TKS fluid is not included, and is considered the same as baggage + fuel added over your 6 gallons (3 per side) unusable gas. Does your AFM/POH indicate differently? Curious to understand any differences... Rgds, Steve Quote
gsengle Posted August 22, 2016 Report Posted August 22, 2016 It's included on my O... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Jerry 5TJ Posted August 22, 2016 Report Posted August 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, StevenL757 said: (just got around to reading this) Jerry - not correct I'm afraid. For empty weight calculations, TKS fluid is not included, and is considered the same as baggage + fuel added over your 6 gallons (3 per side) unusable gas. Does your AFM/POH indicate differently? Curious to understand any differences... Rgds, Steve No problem Steve, but yes, the AFM/POH explicitly lists 6 gallons of TKS fluid as part of the empty weight. So if I have only 3 gallons of TKS fluid aboard the plane has an "extra" 27 pounds of useful load. The TKS fluid is part of the FIKI system just like the oil is part of the engine system. Both are included in empty weight. Another legal point: The FIKI TKS POH supplement states the system must have at least 3.8 gallons of TKS fluid aboard "for T/O into inadvertent or Icing Conditions". Quote
StevenL757 Posted August 22, 2016 Report Posted August 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Jerry 5TJ said: No problem Steve, but yes, the AFM/POH explicitly lists 6 gallons of TKS fluid as part of the empty weight. So if I have only 3 gallons of TKS fluid aboard the plane has an "extra" 27 pounds of useful load. The TKS fluid is part of the FIKI system just like the oil is part of the engine system. Both are included in empty weight. Another legal point: The FIKI TKS POH supplement states the system must have at least 3.8 gallons of TKS fluid aboard "for T/O into inadvertent or Icing Conditions". Yep - I have that same min. fluid number for takeoff in icing conditions. Just not recalling seeing anything about EW with tank full. My IA swears the fluid isn't included as EW, but I'll have a closer read through it when I get home to understand it better. I keep the tank full most of the time in-between exercising the system anyway, so have been flight-planning 54 pounds "light" all this time. I guess it beats planning the other way incorrectly. Speak soon - thanks for clarifying. Are you "in" for the Summit? Steve Quote
gsengle Posted August 22, 2016 Report Posted August 22, 2016 I keep my tank between 1 and 2 gallons in the summer.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
StevenL757 Posted August 22, 2016 Report Posted August 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, gsengle said: I keep my tank between 1 and 2 gallons in the summer.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk "The gang" still wants to speak with you about your anticipated Avidyne choice... :-) Quote
kevinw Posted August 22, 2016 Report Posted August 22, 2016 10 minutes ago, gsengle said: I keep my tank between 1 and 2 gallons in the summer.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Now you guys have me rethinking this. I have inadvertent TKS on my J and I am nearly positive that fluid is not part of the empty weight. I calculate on-board fluid into my W&B at 9.2 lbs per gallon. I'm going to check into this tonight. I too keep the fluid low in the summer; it's reading about 1.3 gallons right now. Quote
gsengle Posted August 22, 2016 Report Posted August 22, 2016 Mine is FIKI in an Ovation if it matters Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
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