Dream Panel?

[donkaye]

I have the 2016 dream panel--I think.  All glass; not a single legacy instrument in the panel.  I  have flown and taught in legacy airplanes with no glass, some with partial glass, some with mostly glass like the G1000, and then mine with all glass.  I've done instrument ratings in all types.  The bottom line for me is that while they all work, once the time has been spent learning the new technology, a much greater work load can be comfortably accommodated with glass than with an all legacy airplane.

The Example:

I got up at 6:00 am this past Friday morning, since I could tell from the chill in the the air the night before that it would be Overcast the next morning.  I quickly filed for Salinas and noted multiple approaches on the flight plan and drove to the airport.  After a thorough preflight, I popped through the overcast and was vectored to Salinas.  With SVT on the G500 the pitch ladder is expanded and the climbing turn in the clouds nails the 8° pitch up attitude I wanted much more accurately than my old KI 256.  I was cleared Direct to SNS, but came back with a request for direct EWTOF, the point that I wanted to start my LNAV+V approach to the missed.  It was approved.  I loaded and activated the approach and headed for EWTOF.  I also set my minimums alert altitude that shows up on the screen and verbally declares minimums.  I was soon told to cross the fix at 3,000 feet and cleared for the approach.  No more dive and drive and the mental energy and extreme attention required to step down altitudes required of the VOR approach to the same runway.  I have time to listen to everything else on frequency and see how I fit into the current process.  I follow the GP down through the clouds and break out right on the center line.  The minimum are called out and I add power to hold altitude until the 750 alerts me that I crossed the missed approach point.  One button push and I am directed to the missed approach holding point.  Power up, pitch up, positive rate and gear up.  The climbing right turn's pitch attitude is clearly viewed on the expanded pitch ladder once again and I am off to the missed approach holding point.  I ask for one turn in the hold and then the ILS approach into Monterey, which is approved.  After declaring entry into the hold, I quickly load the approach to Monterey, while still showing and flying the hold on the 750.  This was a new addition with System 6.11.  The amount of work that would have been required to do the same thing with legacy instruments; off the chart so to speak.  I run several ILSs into Monterey.  This time alternate missed approach instructions are given and followed.  On the second one, while climbing out I load in via the same technique used in adding a second approach while flying the hold at Salinas, the GPS approach into Watsonville and I ask for the GPS into Watsonville.  ATC asks me where I want to start, and I give him the fix.  He clears me to Watsonville via that fix.  I punch direct to that fix, and I'm off to another approach at a different airport.  Try to ask for and set up the LOC approach to another airport while still running an approach to the previous airport with legacy instruments.  Even the best of instruments pilots would get loaded down.  I ping pong'd from Watsonville back to Salinas, first with the GPS approach at Salinas followed immediately with the ILS back to Salinas on my own navigation.  At the completion of that approach I asked for and got a clearance back to San Jose to fly direct to a point on the ILS.  Just finding that point with legacy instruments would involve both DME and another navigation source.

Friday morning I ran 7 approaches in IMC to 4 different airports.  I don't remember breaking a sweat.  Had that been done with legacy instruments, I would have been tired the rest of the day.

Yes, I'm a fan of glass.

PS regarding reading numbers on airspeed and altitude tapes vs a needle on legacy instruments.  The airspeed and altitude tapes on the G500 each provide a magenta trend line to easily allow recognition of increasing and decreasing airspeed and altitude.

[donkaye]

On July 10, 2016 at 3:05 AM, Hyett6420 said:

Not quite true, it will descend depending on the amount of time you keep the down or up button pressed, so to go down at 500 fpm is a guessing game based on counting seconds.  Normally about 4 seconds will get me APPROX 500 fpm but i would really like to be able to programm 500 fpm amd know that is what it is going to hold. 

Actually it depends on the Mode that you are in.  With ALT on pressing the UP or DOWN rocker arm adjusts the altitude up or down slightly.  With ALT off, if held, it adjusts the pitch attitude at the rate of .9 degrees per second (see the orators manual).

Altitude preselect requires the KEA 130A Altimeter and KAS 297B module.  The KEA Encoding Altimeter is rather expensive.

[aviatoreb]

On 7/9/2016 at 11:43 PM, donkaye said:

I have the 2016 dream panel--I think.  

You do!

Funny with all that glass, the copilot side of the panel is almost empty.  Too bad you can't install a glove compartment.

[flyboy0681]

7 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Will it only go to 500fpm max because mine will quote happily go down to 500 and then when i release the button sometimes it keeps going down at more.  I am never quite sure whether that is downdraughts or the ap. 

Andrew

My experience as well. If I don't watch it, I can easily see 1,200+ fpm

[donkaye]

13 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

My experience as well. If I don't watch it, I can easily see 1,200+ fpm

I corrected my post.  The 500 fpm applies only when ALT has been engaged. See below.

 

Screen Shot 2016-07-11 at 8.27.36 AM.pdf

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

You do!

Funny with all that glass, the copilot side of the panel is almost empty.  Too bad you can't install a glove compartment.

There's a lot more going on behind the panel than shows--including behind the copilot yoke.  I believe the EI MVP 50j control module is behind it.  On the back avionics rack sits the GTS 800, GAD 43e, GDL 69A, GDL 88, WX 500, DME, Flight Stream 210, Alpha Systems Eagle AOA interface module, and support for the G500 including the GRS 77 AHRS and GDC 74 Air Data Computer.   The GMU 44 Magnetometer is mounted in the left wing and by far took the most install time to get it to be interference  free.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, donkaye said:

There's a lot more going on behind the panel than shows--including behind the copilot yoke.  I believe the EI MVP 50j control module is behind it.  On the back avionics rack sits the GTS 800, GAD 43e, GDL 69A, GDL 88, WX 500, DME, Flight Stream 210, Alpha Systems Eagle AOA interface module, and support for the G500 including the GRS 77 AHRS and GDC 74 Air Data Computer.   The GMU 44 Magnetometer is mounted in the left wing and by far took the most install time to get it to be interference  free.

I have no doubt - I am always shocked when I see the bundles of wires behind a modern panel.  Well, anyway you have a beautiful setup.

[Jerry 5TJ]

On 7/9/2016 at 11:43 PM, donkaye said:

I have the 2016 dream panel--I think.  All glass; not a single legacy instrument in the panel.  I  have flown and taught in legacy airplanes with no glass, some with partial glass, some with mostly glass like the G1000, and then mine with all glass.  I've done instrument ratings in all types.  The bottom line for me is that while they all work, once the time has been spent learning the new technology, a much greater work load can be comfortably accommodated with glass than with an all legacy airplane.

 

Don, I think I have the dream panel, too.  Of course, mine is a whole lot like yours...

Agree that it took time to learn the G500/GTX750 etc buttons, scans, and menus.  It took a lot longer than I initially expected -- probably it was 150 hours before the G500 began to feel really comfortable.  After 600 hours using the G500 I too am convinced there is, as you say, a much greater comfortable work load than with the basic 6 we learned on.  It is still hard to hand fly single pilot IFR in weather while in complex airspace, but there is so much additional information graphically presented flowing together into much more seamless situational awareness than in pre-glass operations. 

 

 

 

[MHemperly]

My dream panel is glass but this will have to do for now 

[DonMuncy]

All you guys and your fancy new panels. And not one of you has an 8 track player like my 231 has.  

I could not believe it when I found the plane with the 8 track and no intercom. I installed an intercom before I took possession, but have never needed the space, so it still has the 8 track player.

[Guest]

Just now, DonMuncy said:

All you guys and your fancy new panels. And not one of you has an 8 track player like my 231 has.  

I could not believe it when I found the plane with the 8 track and no intercom. I installed an intercom before I took possession, but have never needed the space, so it still has the 8 track player.

I'm sure if you post your address we could send you some new music to enjoy.

Clarence

[Piloto]

4 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

All you guys and your fancy new panels. And not one of you has an 8 track player like my 231 has.  

I could not believe it when I found the plane with the 8 track and no intercom. I installed an intercom before I took possession, but have never needed the space, so it still has the 8 track player.

With the MP3 players that can store digitally more music than a box full of 8 tracks cassettes at about the size of a box of matches who will go for 8 tracks. Some smart phones can also store music. Not to mention when the 8 track tape get tangled inside the player and you try to wind  the tape back inside the cassette. I remember when the first 45rpm auto players were first introduced. Road bumps made you appreciate the 4 tracks players (later 8 tracks).

José

[flyboy0681]

27 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

All you guys and your fancy new panels. And not one of you has an 8 track player like my 231 has.  

I could not believe it when I found the plane with the 8 track and no intercom. I installed an intercom before I took possession, but have never needed the space, so it still has the 8 track player.

Are you saying that the owner who had it installed listened to it through speakers?

[gsengle]

I really wanna see a photo of a panel with an 8 track! Still have the Carpenters and Barry Manilows greatest hits tapes too?

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[DonMuncy]

40 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Are you saying that the owner who had it installed listened to it through speakers?

I never listened to anything on it before I had the intercom installed, but I presume it played through the pilot's headset. As I said, I had the intercom installed before I took delivery, and I don't remember how it was hooked up.

I have never put a tape in it, (I don't think I have ever owned an 8 track tape)  but it also has a radio built in, and I have, a time or two, listened to the radio.

I will try to get to the hangar and take a photo.

[Bennett]

Years ago, many many years ago, I worked with Paul at LASAR to design and install a 8 CD remote cassette above the hat rack, with the removable CD holder penetrating the vertical back of the hat rack. There was a structure behind the back bulkhead of this area to take the weight of the player. I had a IR hand held controller to communicate with the CD player receiver which was attached to the overhead. A DE had to sign off on the installation, and it worked perfectly. I listened to a lot of music on long flights with it, and the audio came through the regular audio panel and the stereo headsets. Even ramped down the volume for ATC communications. Of course now all of this can be done with an iPhone/iPod and Bluetooth. And now I have XM/Sirrus for music in the J. Works wonderfully with the Garmin remote audio panel and Lightspeed PFX headsets.

[Marauder]

40 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said: Are you saying that the owner who had it installed listened to it through speakers?

I never listened to anything on it before I had the intercom installed, but I presume it played through the pilot's headset. As I said, I had the intercom installed before I took delivery, and I don't remember how it was hooked up.

I have never put a tape in it, (I don't think I have ever owned an 8 track tape)  but it also has a radio built in, and I have, a time or two, listened to the radio.

I will try to get to the hangar and take a photo.

I got you covered Don. Here is the Pioneer 8 track player I took out of my 1972 Plymouth Fury Grand Coupe:

And never fear, I have some music for you as well:

Someone say "Barry Manilow"?

I got to say my music tastes were all over the place!

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[DonMuncy]

All right guys, you caught me lying again. Only reinforcing my ignorance of all things musical. The noisemaker in my panel is not an 8 track. It is a cassette player.  When someone posted the pictures of an 8 track, I realized they would not fit in what I have. So I googled them, For what it is worth, I have never owned an 8 track tape or a cassette tape. Does this make my panel more believable, or less.

[Bob_Belville]

Cassettes ain't that old. My pickup truck, '98 Dodge Dakota, has one.

[flyboy0681]

Let's just cut our losses here. 8 Track does have something in common with aviation - it was invented by William Lear.

I can get past Barry Manilow, but the Village People? Really?

Edited July 12, 2016 by flyboy0681

[mike_elliott]

Just now, flyboy0681 said:

Let's just cut our losses here. 8 Track does have something in common with aviation - it was invented by William Lear.

I can get past Barry Manilow, but the Village People? Really?

 

[Piloto]

The Copacabana by Barry Manilow http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=copacabana+barry+manilow&qpvt=copacabana+barry+manilow&view=detail&mid=5C12E7AAB6A0DCCBA9AE5C12E7AAB6A0DCCBA9AE&FORM=VRDGAR

Brazil 66 https://us.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=arh&hsimp=yhs-001&type=xy_5e6f625a&param1=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&param2=NqZ4NWZbMWpaMt%3D%3D&p=Sergio+Mendez+Brazill+66

Enjoy it

Edited July 12, 2016 by Piloto

[aviatoreb]

53 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Let's just cut our losses here. 8 Track does have something in common with aviation - it was invented by William Lear.

I can get past Barry Manilow, but the Village People? Really?

It's ok.  Forgive the man.  He's carrying Bruce.

[MyNameIsNobody]

My childhood friend John was a couple years older.  When he turned 16 we used to "borrow" his sisters old Buick and go down to the COOP where there was nice gravel.  There was an 8Track with one tape.  Nazareth-Hair of the Dog.  Such greats as "Now you are messing with a SOB and love hurts.  Donuts were completed for entire songs.  "It kind of felt like flying IFR in the klag" with dust cloud enveloping the Buick and the lights illumininating the scene...

Youth.  Wasted on the young.

Edited July 12, 2016 by MyNameIsNobody

[Marauder]

Let's just cut our losses here. 8 Track does have something in common with aviation - it was invented by William Lear.

I can get past Barry Manilow, but the Village People? Really?

My guess I was trying to impress some girl I was dating. Some of those 8 tracks I can't remember playing.

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