Screaming Eagle Upgrade (310 HP with Scimitar Prop)

[Yooper Rocketman]

16 hours ago, GeorgePerry said:

Apologies for un-hijacking the thread but here's a picture of the install in progress.  Test runs tomorrow.

 

No apologies needed from you.  We should have been apologizing.  Let us know how it performs.

Tom

[GeorgePerry]

6 hours ago, co2bruce said:

Looks good George, want to race?

Only if I get a head start!

[GeorgePerry]

6 hours ago, carusoam said:

G,

What are you going to use to measure the new flight characteristics?  

Do you have any new cool tools?  Anything interesting lying around the AOPA hangars for this?

Things that come to mind...

1) updated WnB.

2) T/O ground roll.  Near 800'

3) Climb rate.  Possibly 2 k'pm

4) keep an eye on the FF to make sure it is at the new high set point.

5) When set-up properly, the time to climb thread needs your update.  

Note: I used a SkyRadar to supply WAAS data to an IPad's CloudAhoy app.  CloudAhoy may cost a few bucks now to get the actual details out of it.  Byron photographed my vertical speed indicator in the climb.  Fun days ahead...

 

Best regards,

-a-

The short answer is no fancy gadgets....Just my experience in the stock eagle.  For TO, I know that fully loaded on winter day, TO roll is about 900-1000 ft based on fixed distance markers.  In the summer its about 1200-1400 foot TO Roll.   For Climb in winter fully loaded I see 1200-1300 ft p/min initial climb and summer I see about 900-1000 ft/min. For cruise I know that at 2400 RPM and 22 in MP burning 12.3 Gal/Hr LOP it cruises at 170 knots TAS +/- depending on ISA.  ROP is 180 knots TAS at 15.8 G/hr.

I'll see what I get after the mod.

[co2bruce]

George, are you flying your Screaming Eagle yet?

[GeorgePerry]

Picked up the Screaming Eagle today from Premiere Aircraft.  Impressive upgrade to the stock eagle.  

TO from Ft Lauderdale Exec. 90 deg with a DA of 1700 feet.  Takeoff roll was about 800 feet with one pax and full fuel.

Climb was 1300-1500 FPM initial at full power and 1000 FPM until 6500, with power set at 25"/2500 RPM

  

Cruise was about 3-4 knots better than the McCauley two blade.175 knots TAS at 11,000 on 11.8 G/Hr 50 degrees LOP. (See the 16 second Video).  Didn't run ROP so I don't have the "go fast" numbers yet.  

With the Gross Wt increase useful load is 1130 lbs.

Payload specs:

• With full fuel, 89 Gallons that leaves 596 lbs of payload (3 Adults and bags) Range no wind is 950nm or 5.8 hours with 1 hour reserve
• With tabs fuel, 75 Gallons that leaves 680 lbs of payload. (4 light adults, with light bags)  Range no wind is 750nm or 4.7 hours with 1 hour reserve.
• With 60 Gallons of gas that leaves 770 lbs of payload. (4 full sized adults and bags)  Range no wind is 575nm or 3.5 hours with 1 hour reserve.   

After my fuel stop in NC, without ATC restrictions on climb I was able to go from start up to 11,000 feet in 14 min 45 Seconds and that includes start, taxi and take off.  So a guesstimate for time to climb was probably 9 min to 11K.  Not too bad.  

[mike_elliott]

10 minutes ago, GeorgePerry said:

Picked up the Screaming Eagle today from Premiere Aircraft.  Impressive upgrade to the stock eagle.  

TO from Ft Lauderdale Exec. 90 deg with a DA of 1700 feet.  Takeoff roll was about 800 feet with one pax and full fuel.

Climb was 1300-1500 FPM initial at full power and 1000 FPM until 6500, with power set at 25"/2500 RPM

Cruise was about 3-4 knots better than the McCauley two blade.  176 knots TAS at 11,000 on 11.8 G/Hr 50 degrees LOP. (See the 16 second Video).  Didn't run ROP so I don't have the "go fast" numbers yet.  

With the Gross Wt increase useful load is 1130 lbs.

Payload specs:

• With full fuel, 89 Gallons that leaves 596 lbs of payload (3 Adults and bags) Range no wind is 950nm or 5.8 hours with 1 hour reserve
• With tabs fuel, 75 Gallons that leaves 680 lbs of payload. (4 light adults, with light bags)  Range no wind is 750nm or 4.7 hours with 1 hour reserve.
• With 60 Gallons of gas that leaves 770 lbs of payload. (4 full sized adults and bags)  Range no wind is 575nm or 3.5 hours with 1 hour reserve.   

After my fuel stop in NC, without ATC restrictions on climb I was able to go from start up to 11,000 feet in 14 min 45 Seconds and that includes start, taxi and take off.  So a guesstimate for time to climb was probably 9 min to 11K.  Not too bad.  

Wait until your DA isn't into the flight levels like they were at KFXE today! That sucker will climb like one of the Kero burners the government let you drive.

[aviatoreb]

How restrained of you to go LOP and not test your go fast mode on the first flight with the new toy!

Enjoy!

[THill182]

20 hours ago, GeorgePerry said:

Picked up the Screaming Eagle today from Premiere Aircraft.  Impressive upgrade to the stock eagle.  

TO from Ft Lauderdale Exec. 90 deg with a DA of 1700 feet.  Takeoff roll was about 800 feet with one pax and full fuel.

Climb was 1300-1500 FPM initial at full power and 1000 FPM until 6500, with power set at 25"/2500 RPM

....

..

Cruise was about 3-4 knots better than the McCauley two blade.175 knots TAS at 11,000 on 11.8 G/Hr 50 degrees LOP. (See the 16 second Video).  Didn't run ROP so I don't have the "go fast" numbers yet.  

With the Gross Wt increase useful load is 1130 lbs.

Payload specs:

• With full fuel, 89 Gallons that leaves 596 lbs of payload (3 Adults and bags) Range no wind is 950nm or 5.8 hours with 1 hour reserve
• With tabs fuel, 75 Gallons that leaves 680 lbs of payload. (4 light adults, with light bags)  Range no wind is 750nm or 4.7 hours with 1 hour reserve.
• With 60 Gallons of gas that leaves 770 lbs of payload. (4 full sized adults and bags)  Range no wind is 575nm or 3.5 hours with 1 hour reserve.   

 

Congratulations; I always felt that this is what the non-turbo Ovation/Eagle should have been from the beginning.

Those numbers are remarkably close to mine; I converted a 2000 Ovation; except (a couple of observations):

1. Your oil temp shows as 170F; that is right by the Yellow-to-Green-Arch boundary on my Moritz gages. I always thought that running a bit higher (at/above 185F to 200F) guarantees I cook all the moisture out of the oil. So I have "winterized" my oil cooler to run at a higher and at that temp (even on hot days in the summer).

2. Your speed is about 5kts to 7kts higher than mine; I attribute that to my "accessories" -- TKS and AC.

3. That also costs me lot of payload. (But the AC sure is nice about now in OK/TX).

4. Other than that, I seem to run exactly the same at 11k ft, with 11.8Gph and 50F LOP.

By the way, the biggest benefit I saw for me personally: I rarely ever now worry about density altitude departing from higher elevations in the summer -- even Sedona in the summer. Of course I always do the computations (the performance charts are dead-on); but I can now fly out of such airports with enough fuel to travel home or almost home without stops. That wasn't possible before, with 280 HP and the 2-bladed prop.

HAVE FUN!

 

 

[GeorgePerry]

I heard today Mooney factory is going to bring the new Ovation Ultra out to Frederick.  I think a drag race is in order!

[Robert C.]

George,

Not to be a sourpuss, but if they come around to show off the new Ultra, can you ask them what they are going to do to support the owners of legacy aircraft? Especially the G1000/S-Tec equipped Ovations and Bravos?

A shiny new aircraft that won't be supported isn't nearly as exciting as one that will be. And their actions towards existing customers will speak louder than words.

Thanks in advance.

Robert

[GeorgePerry]

Robert,  I couldn't agree with you more.  I would hope they'd realize the most fertile ground to plow for new sales is existing customers who might want to upgrade.  I will definitely mention.  I am aware there's an issue with early G1000 aircraft with ADS-B installs not being supported at the moment, but I am not well versed on the issue. Perhaps you can send me a quick summary of the major talking points so I'm better prepared to have that discussion.  PM coming your way...

[Danb]

George Adsb is a non issue, I've had the Garmin 345R installed and it's a good unit, just need the software upgrade to get the wx on the screen instead of the iPad, for me a non issue since I have xm. The issue is no WAAS approach capability, they continue to ignore us long before the ugly M10

[Jeff_S]

George, there is a thread with very recent entries on the topic of support for these non-WAAS planes. It will tell you all you need to know. It would sure be great to get someone from AOPA, and a fellow Mooney pilot to boot, to put some pressure on them. Let us know what they say!

[Jeff_S]

Just now, Danb said:

George Adsb is a non issue, I've had the Garmin 345R installed and it's a good unit, just need the software upgrade to get the wx on the screen instead of the iPad, for me a non issue since I have xm. The issue is no WAAS approach capability, they continue to ignore us long before the ugly M10

Dan, when did you install the 345? How long did that take, and how much extra labor did the shop charge? Did you have to get a third GPS antenna? I'm considering doing this in October since my two-year check is due..

[GeorgePerry]

10 minutes ago, Jeff_S said:

George, there is a thread with very recent entries on the topic of support for these non-WAAS planes. It will tell you all you need to know. It would sure be great to get someone from AOPA, and a fellow Mooney pilot to boot, to put some pressure on them. Let us know what they say!

Happy to help but I do need to know the details. 

Can you post a link to the thread?

[Jeff_S]

Just now, GeorgePerry said:

Can you post a link to the thread?

Le voilà!  

 

[GeorgePerry]

2 minutes ago, Jeff_S said:

Le voilà!  

 

Reading the first few post it sounds as if Stacy Ellis from mooney says they have a fix in the works for ADSB - so problem solved. Not sure what else can be done?

If the issue is WAAS approaches not supported then let me know.  Again a short summary of the unresolved issues is needed before I have this discussion  

 

 

 

[Danb]

Jeff, yes on the third antennae, the install was done in July, and I was charged $ 1,750 for the installation. At least we now have a path for one of our issues no thanx to Mooney.

[Jeff_S]

8 hours ago, GeorgePerry said:

Reading the first few post it sounds as if Stacy Ellis from mooney says they have a fix in the works for ADSB - so problem solved. Not sure what else can be done?

If the issue is WAAS approaches not supported then let me know.  Again a short summary of the unresolved issues is needed before I have this discussion  

 

 

 

Hi George,

Okay, summary version. Mooney has been claiming for several years that they have a plan in place to allow these non-WAAS G1000 birds to upgrade to WAAS in a more economical fashion. The first option they provided, which cost on the order of $60-80K, was to simply swap out all the STEC-parts and the older Garmin GDU with a new GDU and put in the Garmin GFC700 autopilot.  Not too many people took them up on this offer. Later on they said they had a plan to bring WAAS capability to these planes and keep the STEC 55x autopilot, which as we all know supports WAAS approaches just fine in many other configurations (e.g. the GNS480/MX20 I had in my old J).

That plan has stalled for two years or more now, and counting. Tom Bowen has gone on record stating publicly that he sees this as a safety issue and has "committed" to it in the past, but it keeps getting stuck behind all the new development. While we as owners respect that Mooney has to continue to grow and seek new sources of revenue, this particular project has many of us feeling stranded that we can't get full utility out of our planes in the modern age, especially as ILS approaches are being replaced by LPV approaches. Also, this hurts the resale value of our planes.

It is true now that with the GTX34 we have a solution for ADS-B in/out, and that's a good thing. But it is also true that Mooney has stranded the G1000 owners with an older version of the Garmin software that doesn't even support some of the newer capabilities built into the G1000, such as outputting the engine monitor data (and many others features I'm sure). Independent exploration by some members here on Mooneyspace (David Kayden, among others) suggests that the software exists to support all these changes with minimal development time required, if any. But a test/certification program has to be put in place and managed by Mooney, since they own the TC and no one else can do anything legally.

The net-net is that Mooney has been telling us for several years that they are working on this problem, and nothing happens. It always gets pushed off to the side. We're just looking for some concrete action that assures us the project will get going.  While there has been some idle talk about possibly forming a class-action lawsuit to see if we can get things going, no one really wants to do this and as I noted above, we recognize Mooney has priorities. We just want one of those priorities to be us!

[mike_elliott]

11 hours ago, GeorgePerry said:

I heard today Mooney factory is going to bring the new Ovation Ultra out to Frederick.  I think a drag race is in order!

We are hoping to hear it will make an appearance in Panama City Beach for the Mooney Summit IV also, maybe on the way there

 

[ChristianGodin]

What is thhe weight of this upgrade?

[GeorgePerry]

Adds about 12-14 pounds but also comes w a 160 pound gross wieght increase. So it's well worth it just for the additional useful load. 

[Darrolio]

Hi Screaming Eaglers - 

I've been reading through the forums here, and found that the upgrade gives additional useful load.  Some say 160, some say 168... how do you determine the increase? 

My father has a Screaming Eagle, and knows that his empty weight increased from 2282 to 2296, but he still uses the original POH gross weight of 3200. He doesn't recall hearing about any increase in gross weight when he got the upgrade.  Is this determined on a plane by plane basis, or is the general rule of thumb to add "168", per the "Screaming Eagle Experience" article by Scotty Neal? 

Thanks for any pointers!

[kmyfm20s]

5 hours ago, Darrolio said:

Hi Screaming Eaglers - 

I've been reading through the forums here, and found that the upgrade gives additional useful load.  Some say 160, some say 168... how do you determine the increase? 

My father has a Screaming Eagle, and knows that his empty weight increased from 2282 to 2296, but he still uses the original POH gross weight of 3200. He doesn't recall hearing about any increase in gross weight when he got the upgrade.  Is this determined on a plane by plane basis, or is the general rule of thumb to add "168", per the "Screaming Eagle Experience" article by Scotty Neal? 

Thanks for any pointers!

He should have 2 thin binders that came with the STC. In the binder it shows the gross weight increase to 3368 lbs, which bring the Eagle up to the same GW as the Ovation. Show the binders to your mechanic and have a new W&B made for your POH. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Darrolio...

The Numbers you have posted seem to be off a bit...

To be sure of such an important piece of info...

The STC and the POH are the places to look.

The Eagle is a great bird...

It can be updated via the Screamin’ Eagle STC to get more fuel in the tanks, and get more HP delivered up front...

All Long Bodies are capped with a common MGToW and a similar but different MGLanding Weight...

Verify that you have the STC... It is 10 of the coolest pages in Mooney Eagle Aviation...

There is too much information in the binders for most people to memorize... 

There is a thread around here for WnB apps...

To understand how these numbers are arrived upon... it helps to understand why the Mooney factory did what they did.... The Eagle was a financial entry level Long Body Mooney.... a lower cost Ovation...

It was built out of the same basic airplane and engine... just had some physical limitations added to it... 

• Two blade prop
• Reduced HP
• reduced fuel capacity
• Lower MGToW

Rocket engineering Sold an STC to bring the Eagle up to max performance status...

• 280 and 310hp became available
• 3 blade prop
• 100gal capacity 
• MGToW to match the other LBs

Make sure you have all the details to match... the added performance makes the Screamin’ Eagle a different bird...

Consider getting Transition Training if the airplane has become available to you To fly... 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI... 

Best regards,

-a-