EGT on initial Climb Out

[co2bruce]

Had an issue with EGT being in the blue arc or higher during climb from sea level today. I seem to remember needing to lean a few turns on the way up to 3000. After landing I ran it up to 1600 rpm and the EGT was in the blue. That seems high to me. Does anyone know what their EGT reads at run up, or initial climb. These are pics of run up at 1600rpm

[jclemens]

Isn't the blue the target zone?  There is no problem whatsoever with 1450 EGT's.

[co2bruce]

Yes but I don't remember the temp being this high at 1700 rpm right before mag check. I could be mistaken, I'm not getting any younger.

[M20S Driver]

My run-up in my Eagle (310 HP) is at around 1225 on the JPI 730.   What is your max fuel flow at T.O.?

[N201MKTurbo]

Where was your mixture set?

[co2bruce]

Mixture full rich. FF at takeoff is 22.9 Gph. Are you at or above the blue zone climbing out from sea level? 

[M20S Driver]

Just now, co2bruce said:

Mixture full rich. FF at takeoff is 22.9 Gph. Are you at or above the blue zone climbing out from sea level? 

I am always above blue zone.  My stock EGT reads around 1480 deg on T.O.

I have 310HP set up and run 2700 RPM with 27.9 GPH.

[Guest]

High 1200's to low 1300's would be more normal at full power full rich takeoff or climb. I'd be checking the mag timing and the fuel system per the TCM SID 97-3.

Clarence

[jclemens]

Yeah, didn't realize you were at 1700 rpm in the photos.  As mentioned check full power fuel flow first.

[Godfather]

Is the 22.9 GPH at 2400 rpm?

[carusoam]

 

Based on old fuzzy memories...

The S has three engine set-ups to select from... 240, 280 and 310 hp. 

It may be helpful for the OP to add which set-up he has.  The FF will be specific to the engine's max output.

The run-up may have two different rpm choices one for mags and one for 1700 rpm vs. 2,000rpm.

Be as specific as you can be... (I am always Trying to be helpful)

Best regards,

-a-

[co2bruce]

Yes that is at 2400 rpm, full takeoff power at full rich on our standard Eagle.

[Browncbr1]

My IO-360 usually runs about 1330-1340 on the leanest cylinder WOT full rich 2700. I reduce rpm to 2600 and don't touch mixture until it starts to go below 1290.  I target 1300 until i can't make more than 75% power.  

I just remembering Mike Busch saying to maintain egts on climb. 

[jetdriven]

Beechtalk has this discussed thoroughly.  Stock fuel flows are too lean per the SID, and the ones who turn it up an extra couple GPH are rewarded with nice cool cylinders on takeoff. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by jetdriven

[co2bruce]

Thanks for all the good info. 

[Shadrach]

On May 13, 2016 at 7:06 PM, jclemens said:

Isn't the blue the target zone?  There is no problem whatsoever with 1450 EGT's.

In climb? If any of my EGTs ran that high in climb I'd be enrichening immediatly. If they ran that high while full rich, I would ground my aircraft until I sorted it out.

[Shadrach]

9 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

My IO-360 usually runs about 1330-1340 on the leanest cylinder WOT full rich 2700. I reduce rpm to 2600 and don't touch mixture until it starts to go below 1290.  I target 1300 until i can't make more than 75% power.  

I just remembering Mike Busch saying to maintain egts on climb. 

Your full rich EGTs are high; 150-200 higher than where my F runs WOT full rich.

[Shadrach]

On May 13, 2016 at 7:59 PM, M20S Driver said:

I am always above blue zone.  My stock EGT reads around 1480 deg on T.O.

I have 310HP set up and run 2700 RPM with 27.9 GPH.

Yow, where does it peak? Your EGTs should be 200-250 ROP on take off; I can't imagine how they could be close to that at 1480.

[M20S Driver]

52 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Yow, where does it peak? Your EGTs should be 200-250 ROP on take off; I can't imagine how they could be close to that at 1480.

Full power T.O. Stock EGT is 1460 to 1480. The top of the blue zone is at 1430.  I have never peaked the EGT at full power at sea level.  

Cruise climb is 2700 rpm and 24 inches and I get 1430 at 1000 msl.

75% power cruise at 7000 feet gives me peak EGT of 1560.

[jclemens]

8 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Your full rich EGTs are high; 150-200 higher than where my F runs WOT full rich.

His EGT's numbers are just fine. The IO-520 in my Bonanza runs around 1350 on takeoff.  My fuel flow is set higher than book, 26 GPH vs. 24.  If you lean it to 24 on takeoff EGTs are near 1500.  The temperature of the EGT is not important, the CHT is the temperature you need to pay close attention to.  If you can keep your CHT's below 400, your EGT can be any temp you want.  I assume your F model has an engine monitor that was installed after it was produced.  The position of the probes on the exhaust pipes will affect the number you see on your EGT gauge.  I recall JPI's installation instructions want the probes 2-3 inches from the cylinder head.  If your probes were 2" instead of 3" you would see higher EGT numbers.  

[Shadrach]

7 hours ago, jclemens said:

His EGT's numbers are just fine. The IO-520 in my Bonanza runs around 1350 on takeoff.  My fuel flow is set higher than book, 26 GPH vs. 24.  If you lean it to 24 on takeoff EGTs are near 1500.  The temperature of the EGT is not important, the CHT is the temperature you need to pay close attention to.  If you can keep your CHT's below 400, your EGT can be any temp you want.  I assume your F model has an engine monitor that was installed after it was produced.  The position of the probes on the exhaust pipes will affect the number you see on your EGT gauge.  I recall JPI's installation instructions want the probes 2-3 inches from the cylinder head.  If your probes were 2" instead of 3" you would see higher EGT numbers.  

I respectfully dissagree. Back when John Deakin (of APS) was still writing a column for avweb we exchanged a few emails regarding why 1150-1250 is ideal. I also put a lot of stock in what APS recommends  (I've not taken the course, but have conversed with their instructors and I think they've been a very positive force in the GA community). The bottom line is that the engine should be a MINIMUM of 200ROP, preferably 250.  Everyone parrots the "EGT raw numbers don't mean anything" line. You're right, they don't. But they do mean something relative to peak.  1350 + 250 is 1600. Will your Bonanza peak at 1600 under full power? My gues is you're running closer to 150ROP on take off. If you think that's good, then by all means.

Setting with CHT Is fine if you understand what's going on. The problem is when some newb reads what you've written and thinks as long as they keep CHTs under 400 they're being kind to their engine.  An engine setting that yields a 385 CHT on day when the OAT is 15df is not being kind to an engine. The same setting on a standard day would would be well over 400. Sure the engine will tolerate it for the most part, but given the past QC issues with Continental cylinders, it's likey prudent to be as kind to the cylinders as possible.

1350 is perfectly healthy for a low C/R turbo that peaks ~1700, not so good for an NA engine running 8.7 or 8.5 to 1.

I read a lot of complaints about high CHTs in the summer.  Folks will ask for advice after they've finished chasing every baffle seal leak they can find. Then we find out their EGT on the hot cylinder is 1430 in the climb...then I suggest that it might be a fuel issue which then cues the chorus of "raw EGT numbers don't matter."

My bird runs very cool in climb; all full power EGTS are 1200 or less. The baffle seals are in good shape and reasonably well installed. I think the latter helps a bit, but the former is the key reason it runs so cool.

[Shadrach]

17 hours ago, M20S Driver said:

Full power T.O. Stock EGT is 1460 to 1480. The top of the blue zone is at 1430.  I have never peaked the EGT at full power at sea level.  

Cruise climb is 2700 rpm and 24 inches and I get 1430 at 1000 msl.

75% power cruise at 7000 feet gives me peak EGT of 1560.

And does WOTFR 2700 yield cool CHTs?

[M20S Driver]

34 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

And does WOTFR 2700 yield cool CHTs?

"And does WOTFR 2700 yield cool CHTs?"---  YES.  

I upgraded to 310 HP last year. I used to struggle to keep it below 380 deg f during full power T.O.s  in the summer but now it is a non-issue.  

My EGT during my sea level WOTFR take off today was very near top of the blue line and around 1440 Deg F (Moony EGT not JPI).  Fuel flow was at 27.9 GPH.

[Browncbr1]

I think the TO egt values mike Busch talked about were at sea level.  In any case, my cht never goes over 360 on hottest #3 on hot days with 25 degree timing.  FF at about 17-16.5... but as an added measure to be good to my engine, I back off on MAP and rpm just after take off.  I know it's certified to run harder, but I don't. 

Edited May 16, 2016 by Browncbr1

[Cruiser]

1 hour ago, M20S Driver said:

"And does WOTFR 2700 yield cool CHTs?"---  YES.  

I upgraded to 310 HP last year. I used to struggle to keep it below 380 deg f during full power T.O.s  in the summer but now it is a non-issue.  

My EGT during my sea level WOTFR take off today was very near top of the blue line and around 1440 Deg F (Moony EGT not JPI).  Fuel flow was at 27.9 GPH.

Interesting, I cannot maintain full power T/O and keep the CHT in check. My #5 cylinder will slowly climb unless I pull the RPM back to 2500.